Lower the Rubber

[Flow]

No thanks

[Lucifer]

Um, maybe some history would be helpful?

The original fortress server copied the old Breakfast in Champions physical settings and tweaked cycle walls to match the fort game. After some more work on rubber in the release cycle, we, as a community, all agreed that 5 was the 'right' number. In its day, Breakfast of Champions WAS "high rubber". It's disappointing, really, to see that it's low rubber now.

Anyway, we experimented with low rubber settings and for a brief period, a fortress server with rubber 1 was somewhat popular, but only attracted the most hardcore players. It turns out that the setting of 5 is a "best medium" setting, because it's challenging enough in context for all players to enjoy while being reasonably forgiving to new players.

So, if you want a fort server with lower rubber for more hardcore gameplay, it will likely be successful, but needs a comparable sumo server, and will always only have a subset of the fort community.

While you're at it, though, you should go all out with a negative rubber.

Edit: On a side note, Concord, your avatar doesn't mean I can't double-bind, just not use glance keys, since I doublebind on one hand and use the other for glance/instant chats.

[Overrated]

As for lag, there are times when I've done a common RRRL turn and slid and ended up with about 4.0~4.9 rubber. Lag in general can decide a game/match. I remember early on in my days of R we played CT and wap had lag died as someone went to an undefended zone in a really tight match. That gave R a match even in these circumstances, so lag is unpredictable and shouldn't exactly be a factor.

What settings are you planning to change? Just the rubber? That seems small if you want to incorporate a lower level. Some things will have to change.

Someone said it would make defenders more prone to being cut. How is this a good thing? Yeah, defenders have an advantage now, so instead you're going to give it to the attackers? Find a balance then come back to me on that point.

I'd be willing to experiment with this (as I said before), but I'm not going to up and make a change or sign a petition without seeing the changes or playing with the changes in effect.

All I get out of this is that some people see it broader than others (via fort vs sumo).

Edit: As far as Lucifer's post, yeah, if you make it lower, you're going to have to make a comparable sumo as well. But I want to experiment before anything else.

[Concord]

@Lucifer but could you do that while experiencing the pain of having a hand just lopped off?

I would suggest that almost everyone who played in the Ladle today is of similar or greater quality to the hardcore players of 2005-2006 that Lucifer describes.

Sign the petition if you agree that rubber should decrease, not for specific settings. One step at a time.

[Lucifer]

Seems to me you don't need a petition, Concord, what you need is to setup a server and see how it does.

[sinewav]

Actually, low rubber Fort and Sumo servers have been done before. And as you might expect, most people thought it was fun and the hardcore players all got their hopes up that one day the rubber addicts would come around. But they didn't, because the nature of rubber is that it only increases. Here is a perfect example: TronServ (Lightcycle Battle) options declare "Square fast track with low rubber." Except the rubber is 16! Also, not that fast...

All the complaints I hear about lag are irrelevant. Lag will kill you no matter what your connection. That's why it's called lag. It's not like you can't dig and tunnel with lower rubber, it's just a little harder. Don't believe me? Play in pretty much any Adventures of TRON server and see for yourself. And another thing, the rubber in Shrunkland is low and everyone loves that server (though the rubber settings there are special). I wouldn't mind seeing more servers with rubber tweaked the way Phytotron does it, because it's pretty awesome.

[Concord]

cycle_rubber 1
cycle_rubber_time 0.5
cycle_rubber_mindistance 0.05


these are my recommendations.

[LOVER$BOY]

cycle_rubber 1
cycle_rubber_time 0.5
cycle_rubber_mindistance 0.05

... seriously?

Well, I guess I can test it out with in Local and see how it goes.

[Overrated]

Whatever settings are currently going on in the low rubber server is whack (imo). Turns feel really weird.

Are you trying to make the center position obsolete with this? Well gee, why don't we go ahead and make it so the defenders can't defend either, oh wait...

[LOVER$BOY]

After doing some testing in Local Game, I came up with these settings that might suit the rubber at 1:

Code: Select all

CYCLE_RUBBER 1.0
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE 0.001
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_RATIO 0.001
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_RESERVOIR 0.09
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_UNPREPARED 0.09
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_PREPARATION 0.1
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINADJUST 0.9
CYCLE_RUBBER_LEGACY 0
CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME 0.5
CYCLE_RUBBER_TIMEBASED 0.0
CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY 0.0
CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS 0.5
CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK 0
CYCLE_RUBBER_SPEED 60.0

I don't know if the others would like these settings but it would be better for them to test it out and see if we can do any changes to better suit this...

[Fippmam]

In regular fortress, I don't think it's feasible. I do, however, think there is merit for a new mode of fortress, with lower rubber and other altered settings.

The end.

[woof]

I would be open to lower rubber but I'd like to see the settings in action first.

On a sidenote, if you are one of the people that likes lower rubber that doesn't make you a "hardcore player". It's all just a matter or preference. Each different rubber value entails very different gameplay, and people seem to prefer the gameplay with five rubber. Having this opinion doesn't make you a "pussy" or a "rubber addict". Comments like those are unnecessary and take away from the discussion.

[LOVER$BOY]

I would like to know one thing... Why are you all ignoring me?

[Fippmam]

I would like to know one thing... Why are you all ignoring me?

Saw the video. It seems even more unforgiving than playing with bots in local matches. It'd make an awesome new game mode, essentially entirely different from current fort, right down to the the splits and everything, because grinding would be suicide.

[LOVER$BOY]

I would like to know one thing... Why are you all ignoring me?

Saw the video. It seems even more unforgiving than playing with bots in local matches. It'd make an awesome new game mode, essentially entirely different from current fort, right down to the the splits and everything, because grinding would be suicide.

Agreed.