You all leave out one important detail. These forums don't belong to Durf.. It's like you went into a random bar, got questioned about how you behaved, pointed out your loaded gun, got the cops called on you, and you were escorted off the premises.
Pretty much that. I don't like the gun analogy particularly well; it's hyperbole and if Durf is the one wielding the gun, there is no appropriate analogy of what we did/may be doing in the future. We're not violent, we are merely telling him to shut up because he is disturbing and insulting the other guests or kicking him out of our bar, which is all our right as bartenders. He wanted to break into our bar and lock me out:
In the PM, Durf wrote:My "threat" was meant to target you.
Meaning if you decide to allow moderator abuse to occur on me, you won't have access to these forums anymore.
He can claim that he "just" would unban himself all he wants, that's what he wrote. And the breaking in part is already unacceptable.
I have made my opinion of that clear several times (there also was a PM I did not publish) and given my final warning here. I have given Durf plenty of time and opportunity to pull back. I would have banned him right now (well, a couple of hours ago) if it were not for Tank's posts. And that is still my view: Ban him. I'd make it a permaban, but first set it to three months on probation.
Re patience: Yep, mine ran out. It took him ages to actually get to the all important points and by that time, it was clear that he'd be stubborn about it. And since the conversation was just in PM and the only one to convince would have been him and that was not going to happen, I stopped trying. I don't like to pointlessly waste my time. I had already spent about ten times more on him at that point than on any other moderation dispute before. If he really just wanted to understand what he did wrong (like he claims), he should have gone differently about it.
Durf's harassing pre-hackthreat PMs are still marked as reported; if Tank wants to read them, he can.
I don't think clearer rules would have helped here. Durf demonstrated in the PM thread that he is not willing to follow simple and clear rules if he does not like them.
Tank Program wrote:Moderation will probably become more aggressive.
Do we get to taser people? Make shock keyboards a mandatory accessory? Puppy-Eyes-Pleeeeeaaaaase?
I just find it derpessing that Tank is enabling Durf. Basically, what you did by suspending Lucifer (Very uncalled for, but that's my opinion) has shown Durf that with enough whining, threats and spamming with repetitive, illogical arguments he can get what he wants.
That's way too "diplomatic" approach to someone who is abusive towards everyone who diagrees with him (which is basically like 90% of the forum userbase).
But good luck with resolving it. I would still rather see him banned.
If you guys make fancy forums rules, I best be exempt from them.
As for on topic, I said it earlier, the forums are not a democracy, and neither are the servers. Dont like how they are managed, ******* cope or leave. I dont understand why this is even an argument besides you guys trying to be decent to someone who doesnt care what you say.
You are admins, act like them. Lucifer did.
I didnt like certain rules of some servers, so I created my own reality, and it was awesome. Try it.
No, he didnt, this isnt a ******* vote, like you guys seem to think it is. Its sad that they let you whiners force it as far as you have. He muted a doucebag for a while, it happens. Its not an affront to your liberties, you ******* have none here.
Im pretty ******* disgusted that your flavors seem to think you get to make the rules. The admins make the rules, be it forum, server, or otherwise. Im doubly sad they entertained your bullshit. They are far more tolerant than I.
Want lucifer susepended and durf permabanned means you need to be welcomed to the internet. Neither of those things are useful, or even enforceable.
Ok, here goes. Tank promised me a response, and he locked the thread. He had to lock the thread, and he knew from private communication that I may not be able to respond. Hence this thread.
I ask that people try not respond. If you really have something to say, send it in a PM (Unless you're someone I've already asked not to PM me). This thread should be locked shortly, I already informed Tank that I was making it. I obviously lack my moderator powers, or else I'd just write it in THAT thread. So Tank DID carry out his suspension.
Firstly, let's talk about my suspension. Tank had reasons for it, and I'm inclined to say they were good reasons, and I believe he threw away many good things I have done. The best example is the post that Durf created the thread over. I edited a post that badly needed a moderator, and then I added a log message that was blatantly trolling Durf.
Now, to be sure, there's a post by Z-man that I edited as well. That post is different. I edited it, I clearly showed what I had to say, and I supported him, and I did it in my own peculiar way. In that thread, in that context, I meant something like "There are two moderators who both agree, y'all need to cut this shit out". I realize it may not have come across that way.
Um, well, so, anyway, yeah, Tank had reason to suspend me. I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with his decision. And guess what! I've voiced that to him. As, well, you know, equals. As peers. It IS his decision, and he made it.
And I will abide by his decision.
Ok, secondly, on the subject of Asperger's (I'm going somewhere with this, so bear with me):
I linked an article from Cracked.com about Autism. Durf obviously had a problem with it. The thing is, the article was written based on the personal accounts of two people, one of which was "autistic", and the other of which was "aspergers". Durf had a problem, he didn't think the sources were credible. I find that idea incredible, because the sources were people much like Durf, and one of the things they both said repeatedly is that Austism presents diffferently for everyone. They also said that whatever they say in the article might apply to them, but doesn't necessarily translate to anybody else.
I can speak personally on that. I lived for 6 months in a home with an Asperger's kid. He was 12 years old at the time. His dad, in case any of you remember him, goes by the name GodTodd around here. We've been friends since we were in the 7th grade.
I tried to teach the kid how to juggle, I played wii games with him, and we just generally hung out. I feel like our relationship was a positive relationship.
And I'm no stranger to Asperger's. I know it's different for each person. My wife has a bar friend who happens to also be an aspie kid. He collects social security, and he has a social worker show up a couple times a month to make sure his bills get paid and his taxes filed. He also likes to sing karaoke and he doesn't drink. He's a cool guy.
Oddly enough, he might be Durf. I have no idea what his internet persona looks like.
Thirdly, let's go ahead and talk about mental illness. This is like a PSA on that one.
Some of you older folks may remember me bragging about my little kids being, well, just awesome little kids, because what do you expect from my kids? Well, they're all awesome.
Two of them are teenagers (three, counting my step-daughter) now. One of them has been hospitalized repeatedly for what they call "suicide ideation". What that means is pretty simple: "I'm going to kill myself, and this is how...."
That's my oldest. For a year or so, I've been doing my part to be supportive to her, and she's lived with her mother. Two weeks ago, she came to live with me. One week ago, she was hospitalized again. Two days ago, she got out.
This is what's on my plate. My oldest is not only suffering from repeated bouts of depression (and I say that to simplify things), but she's also gay, and gender fluid (I'm sure she gets that from me).
She's not having an easy time, and she badly needs support, love, and help. And goddammit, I don't care how many millions of words Durf has to write, my kid is the priority, and Durf can go **** himself.
Fourthly, then there's Z-man. Back when All The Shit was happening, I personally suffered a number of triggers. One night, I was considering how many different ways I could kill myself, and I PM'd Z-man on IRC to tell him this was too much. He's a very good friend, and a braver soul than anybody gives him credit for.
He offered to bear the load for me.
I didn't take him up on that, but he did it anyway.
Whoah, let's back up. Z-man saw me being triggered (because, well, I told him) and he KNEW WHAT THAT MEANT.
Ok, think about that.
Then he offered to bear the load for me.
Like I said, he's a good friend, and he's a good person. This is an excellent time for me to point out that he's the example we should all be following, not because he's the prophet of Armagetron (even though he's done so much for us, including creating the game), but because he's such a good person. None of us will ever know anybody else like him. Period.
This PM exchange between him and Durf. There's so much abusive language Durf used against him. For us, we're all thinking that it's no different than he treats anybody else, but for Z-man, it's quite focused. These last few months have really tried him, and he's, well, I don't know how he feels, but if I were in his shoes, I'd ******* quit.
He's a better person than I am.
But it's worse, how Durf treated him. You can't just go through the PM's, you have to read everything, even all the public posts. And, for me, the thing that really gets me is that Durf's primary reason for why Z-man is such a horrible godforsaken asshole is because he supported me.
I've tried to share the load with him, but for Z-man, that wasn't an option. He stepped in to protect me.
I won't forget.
So then Tank Program comes along with his decision. I've been stripped of my moderator powers for a little bit, I don't know how long (ok, that's kind of a lie), and I've been harshly criticized by people that, well, I deeply respect. That hurts me. I'm not turning over a new leaf, and Tank should consider that statement when he wants to restore my mod powers. But I won't ever again moderate without the feedback of this experience.
Durf may have been a destructive force (let's all admit it, he was quite destructive), but I won't turn a blind eye to the wonderful things I have learned because of this experience.
And I won't ever let Z-man bear the load for me alone, whether he's willing to or not.
You read this, Z-man? We're not doing this alone, again, ever.
I also want to apologize for my failures in this. I let it drag out a really long time and I shouldn't have done that. I'm not very good at moderation and everytime something like this happens on the forums I learn something new. So Lucifer, Z-Man, Durf, everyone else, I'm sorry I dropped the ball.
