does admin = god complex?
how am i supposed to know your other aliaseses? This is the first time i have even heard of you. kid.
It wasn't obvious by your post at all, i thought you were audrey's friend or something. you hardly came out saying "LoL roflmao!!!1 dat was me ya **** HAHAHA" did you? and judging by other people's comments, no one else thought it was you either.
It wasn't obvious by your post at all, i thought you were audrey's friend or something. you hardly came out saying "LoL roflmao!!!1 dat was me ya **** HAHAHA" did you? and judging by other people's comments, no one else thought it was you either.
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Phytotron
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Why in the world would I make a comment like that, especially in that completely idiotic, juvenile manner? Banning you was not a joke to me. I don't do it lightly or for fun. In fact, I consider it a major irritant in the course of my trying to play a game. I would prefer there weren't so many assholes who played this game so I wouldn't have to be bothered with it. Unfortunately, the game is littered with them, most of them proud of it. That's half of the reason why I got remote admin status in the first place. And I for one am getting damn sick of it. It's a wonder I even bother playing anymore.Infamous wrote:It wasn't obvious by your post at all, i thought you were audrey's friend or something. you hardly came out saying "LoL roflmao!!!1 dat was me ya **** HAHAHA" did you?
At any rate, you deserved the ban for the reason already given. There's no debating it. I suggest you grow up, deal with it, and stop sullying this with your griping. Subject closed.
fonkay: yes of course it was. But i was also bringing up the idea of admin abuse, and as a couple of others have said they have seen it happening, it turned out to be a worthwhile thread imo. Do you have anything to add to the topic of admin abuse? or are you just going to stick up for your friend?
lou: i didn't know i was banned... oh no, what will i do, i have been in your server a massive 2 times that i know of, whereever will i go now???
I am not denying i insulted/offended you, but it was YOU who incited me into doing it. If i'm trying to have a bit of fun and some muppet changes settings and KILLs me FOR NO ACTUAL TWATTING REASON, i'm probably going to be pissed off and insult them. And for what i had said to you, you must have pissed me off something special.
and if you think by saying "subject closed." that you come out of this with some kind of dignity, wise up, kid.
lou: i didn't know i was banned... oh no, what will i do, i have been in your server a massive 2 times that i know of, whereever will i go now???
I am not denying i insulted/offended you, but it was YOU who incited me into doing it. If i'm trying to have a bit of fun and some muppet changes settings and KILLs me FOR NO ACTUAL TWATTING REASON, i'm probably going to be pissed off and insult them. And for what i had said to you, you must have pissed me off something special.
and if you think by saying "subject closed." that you come out of this with some kind of dignity, wise up, kid.
I have nothing to add. Was just hoping that if it was just a rant, this whole topic could be left to die, 'cause I feel like we're beating a dead horse here.
If it wasn't a rant, I was hoping to get you to state your point. Since not stating the server, and/or admin sounded like blowing steam to me. And in the end you're coming off like bickering school kids.
Also, I don't have to stick up for silly, he's a grown man and can fend for himself. Plus we don't always see eye to eye, that's why we get along.
If it wasn't a rant, I was hoping to get you to state your point. Since not stating the server, and/or admin sounded like blowing steam to me. And in the end you're coming off like bickering school kids.
Also, I don't have to stick up for silly, he's a grown man and can fend for himself. Plus we don't always see eye to eye, that's why we get along.
Last edited by Fonkay on Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Heh, actually, I was pretty sure it was him based on your post, Infamous, before he even responded. But if you see Phytotron's response to wrtl's post, you'll see why I didn't even suggest it.Infamous wrote: no one else thought it was you either.
Other than that, I took the post that started this thread as being "Hey, I was wrong, too, but let's talk about the subject of Abusive Remote Admins, whether or not this particular instance was a case of actual abuse, because while people complain a lot, very few people seem to actually talk about what makes a good remote admin." And I was hoping someone would, during the course of this thread, determine what would be good content for a wiki page that said "How to be a Good remote admin and how to be a Sucky remote admin".
If you guys would like to pursue that discussion, then by all means, let's go! If not, then yeah, this thread needs to die soon.
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Phytotron
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I think what makes a "good admin" is defined by what the server owner and admin(s)* have in mind for the server, conceptually. What does that boil down to summarily? House rules.
* Noting that remote admins are usually longtime regulars of the server in good standing/virtual friendship with the owner, and of like mind.
* Noting that remote admins are usually longtime regulars of the server in good standing/virtual friendship with the owner, and of like mind.
I have stolen the "house rules" of shrunkland:
*Kick and Kill players at will.
*If it looks like someone is about to beat you using shrewd tactics such as double binding or "being better than you" then change the settings willy nilly so that it favours you.
*If someone is even remotely camping, KILL them.
*Act like an arrogant prick on forums, this will help our image.
*Use long words to make yourself appear more intelligent than you actually are.
nb. some of the rules may have been made up by me.
*Kick and Kill players at will.
*If it looks like someone is about to beat you using shrewd tactics such as double binding or "being better than you" then change the settings willy nilly so that it favours you.
*If someone is even remotely camping, KILL them.
*Act like an arrogant prick on forums, this will help our image.
*Use long words to make yourself appear more intelligent than you actually are.
nb. some of the rules may have been made up by me.
Personally I think being a good remote admin is about keeping the server fun for the people playing it, and for the people you want playing there. If you keep it fun for p30ple th4t t47k 5t|_|P1d7y, then you'll get those people to play there and nobody else.
I tend to define "fun" as "mostly what people on swampland used to want" because I don't know what they currently want. You'll find my own personal view of what makes a server fun among the non-double-grinding crowd on the fortress servers.
I'm going to have to agree with someone from the irc channel, as a remote admin you do need to be somewhat abusive every now and then to remind folks who's the boss. And the server admin needs to come in and beat up on his remote admins every now and then for the same reasons. 
I tend to define "fun" as "mostly what people on swampland used to want" because I don't know what they currently want. You'll find my own personal view of what makes a server fun among the non-double-grinding crowd on the fortress servers.
I'm going to have to agree with someone from the irc channel, as a remote admin you do need to be somewhat abusive every now and then to remind folks who's the boss.
And the server admin needs to come in and beat up on his remote admins every now and then for the same reasons. Check out my YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@davefancella?si=H--oCK3k_dQ1laDN
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Tank Program
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Funny that every second "I got banned/kicked" rant somehow ends up with the OP screaming "You know what? I'm glad I got banned, I don't want to play on your shitty server anyway!".
I basically agree with Phytotron that a remote admin should enforce house rules, whatever they may be. In the case that the remote admin also is the master admin, that means he can do what he want; it's his server, the players are guests, and it's the master's right to select the people he wants to invite. Of course, the house rules should be designed to be fun for the guests, and ideally, they should be as lean as possible, and you should only handle stuff by remote admin that you can't handle with other settings. Possible such rules I can think of right now:
- no cursing
Or other chat rules, like "no homophobia". It should be obious that this one can't be handled automatically.
- no rim abuse
Where *abuse* lies in the eye of the beholder. I'd say it would be "use the rim to block a player, then run away into the other direction". There is no easy automated solution for this, either; no matter what you do to force people away from the rim, be it a big sumo zone or rim_accel permantently on 100000, the tactic of going as close to the rim as you possibly can, then running away, still is possible.
- no double bind abuse
Where *abuse* would be "use too frequently". No permanent setting protects against that, there is no dobulebind spam protection. It wouldn't make too much sense, IMHO. (I personally prefer higher cycle_delay to combat the usefulness of dobule binding, but that's just me.)
- no camping
Where camping, in AA last team standing or fortress mode, can be anything that needlessly prolongues a round. Not suiciding when you see you're trapped on an infinite wall server and only one other player is left who has more room than you, and the walls of all the others have already vanished, definitely is camping, I think everyone agrees on that. But beyond that, definitions vary, and would be part of the house rules. I'd say doing a death spiral defense on fortress applies, too.
- fair play (better name needed)
Don't go for the weakest player first to get free points. Sumo-stlye spawn points that place equally scored players together help here a bit, but mess up the symmetry.
- no bug exploits
Don't rip, phase or lag intentionally.
- no tactical winzone usage
Which means on a fortress server that even though the defender doesn't do the death spiral and is prepared to hold the zone infinitely, the attacker(s) sit around and wait for the winzone to appear, knowing they'll get there faster.
- no tactical holing
Again on a fortress server, don't use a hole a teammate made intentionally. Other holes are fine (holes the enemy defenders made, accidental crashes) by this rule. You can ban hole usage totally by just disabling holes, but you can't detect intentional holing properly. Note that I wouldn't add this rule to my house rules
- no raiding
On a multi-fortress server, if you're the only player left on your team and another player, also last of his team, attacks an occupied enemy zone, don't go for his ungarded home.
- coach duty
When a new player enters the server and doesn't know what to do, it's everyone's duty to try to teach him.
- no claning
Whenever two or three of a clan are on a team server, they join the same team against the will of the other players and call everyone else "noobs".
- no hijacking
Two clans/teams enter, kickvote everyone else off, and start a match for a tournament. Of course, with a remote admin present, you shouldn't need kick votes in the first place.
- payback!
When you see a player on your server who is a total ass on other servers, the remote admins are allowed any abuse.
Oh, yes, players will see the MESSAGE_OF_DAY fullscreen in 0.2.8.3 and 0.3.1. So admins have lots of space to elaborate the house rules there. A short summary can be put into the SERVER_OPTIONS description line, and most servers already do so.
A fixed, well defined catalogue of standard house rules would help, so you know what expects you on a server by looking at the description in the brower. I hope my list goes into the right direction.
I basically agree with Phytotron that a remote admin should enforce house rules, whatever they may be. In the case that the remote admin also is the master admin, that means he can do what he want; it's his server, the players are guests, and it's the master's right to select the people he wants to invite. Of course, the house rules should be designed to be fun for the guests, and ideally, they should be as lean as possible, and you should only handle stuff by remote admin that you can't handle with other settings. Possible such rules I can think of right now:
- no cursing
Or other chat rules, like "no homophobia". It should be obious that this one can't be handled automatically.
- no rim abuse
Where *abuse* lies in the eye of the beholder. I'd say it would be "use the rim to block a player, then run away into the other direction". There is no easy automated solution for this, either; no matter what you do to force people away from the rim, be it a big sumo zone or rim_accel permantently on 100000, the tactic of going as close to the rim as you possibly can, then running away, still is possible.
- no double bind abuse
Where *abuse* would be "use too frequently". No permanent setting protects against that, there is no dobulebind spam protection. It wouldn't make too much sense, IMHO. (I personally prefer higher cycle_delay to combat the usefulness of dobule binding, but that's just me.)
- no camping
Where camping, in AA last team standing or fortress mode, can be anything that needlessly prolongues a round. Not suiciding when you see you're trapped on an infinite wall server and only one other player is left who has more room than you, and the walls of all the others have already vanished, definitely is camping, I think everyone agrees on that. But beyond that, definitions vary, and would be part of the house rules. I'd say doing a death spiral defense on fortress applies, too.
- fair play (better name needed)
Don't go for the weakest player first to get free points. Sumo-stlye spawn points that place equally scored players together help here a bit, but mess up the symmetry.
- no bug exploits
Don't rip, phase or lag intentionally.
- no tactical winzone usage
Which means on a fortress server that even though the defender doesn't do the death spiral and is prepared to hold the zone infinitely, the attacker(s) sit around and wait for the winzone to appear, knowing they'll get there faster.
- no tactical holing
Again on a fortress server, don't use a hole a teammate made intentionally. Other holes are fine (holes the enemy defenders made, accidental crashes) by this rule. You can ban hole usage totally by just disabling holes, but you can't detect intentional holing properly. Note that I wouldn't add this rule to my house rules
- no raiding
On a multi-fortress server, if you're the only player left on your team and another player, also last of his team, attacks an occupied enemy zone, don't go for his ungarded home.
- coach duty
When a new player enters the server and doesn't know what to do, it's everyone's duty to try to teach him.
- no claning
Whenever two or three of a clan are on a team server, they join the same team against the will of the other players and call everyone else "noobs".
- no hijacking
Two clans/teams enter, kickvote everyone else off, and start a match for a tournament. Of course, with a remote admin present, you shouldn't need kick votes in the first place.
- payback!
When you see a player on your server who is a total ass on other servers, the remote admins are allowed any abuse.
Oh, yes, players will see the MESSAGE_OF_DAY fullscreen in 0.2.8.3 and 0.3.1. So admins have lots of space to elaborate the house rules there. A short summary can be put into the SERVER_OPTIONS description line, and most servers already do so.
A fixed, well defined catalogue of standard house rules would help, so you know what expects you on a server by looking at the description in the brower. I hope my list goes into the right direction.
z man, if the server had no doublebinds then that would have been fine, but it was the fact it was changed without warning as soon as i did a few of them, as if i am supposed to know that DBing is not liked there.
Even a simple "can you please not double bind so much?" would have done. I will absolutely obey house rules, but if they are changed mid round to spite me, i might get annoyed.
tank, you're right, i will desist.
Even a simple "can you please not double bind so much?" would have done. I will absolutely obey house rules, but if they are changed mid round to spite me, i might get annoyed.
tank, you're right, i will desist.
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Jonathan
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People have called me a camper in such a server when I had most of the grid, significantly more than the other one alive, but couldn't reach as much of the rim.z-man wrote:- no camping
Where camping, in AA last team standing or fortress mode, can be anything that needlessly prolongues a round. Not suiciding when you see you're trapped on an infinite wall server and only one other player is left who has more room than you, and the walls of all the others have already vanished, definitely is camping, I think everyone agrees on that.