First impressions

[ConVicT]

Really the point of my post was "People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones!"

Edit: or better: "Treat others as you wish to be treated"

[Ratchet]

But when it comes to domestic violence, it's pretty even between both sexes. Some studies even show women having a higher rate, though it also shows more injuries by men onto women.

Time to start citing sources. I am honestly curious to know more about this. While I've never acted violently toward my girlfriends I have taken more than a couple hits from them (and unsuccessfully dodged objects flying in my direction). Though if I ever did fight back it wouldn't be much of a fight. I guess the stats probably reflect that too.

http://comics.davefancella.com/blog/abuse_culture.html

Sources cited. Women are more abusive, up to twice as much by some studies. It's pretty much proven, it's just a matter of getting some of you blockheads to see it.

I must admit, I'm a fan of your writings. I don't wish to be a part of this discussion, just wanted to point out you have a nice flow-y style.

[Light]

Of course it has. Your asinine, ignorant comment about, "well, women aren't raped as much as they say and hey men get raped too so it's pretty equal and not a big deal stop getting so upset."

Feel free to show me where I said it was equal. In fact, I said nothing close to that. I don't see how it is asinine to pay attention to it all rather than blocking out a percentage of what's going on. You seem to act as if abuse towards men is alright because men do it to women more, but no it's not.

And after writing that, I go look at your link. There, you are agreeing with what I said.

There are now hundreds of studies that show quite plainly that women are at least as violent as men in relationships.

Read that again, because you may not have read it right.

Women are at least as violent as men in relationships.

This is an established fact.

Trying to find a couple more recent ones out of your source on that page.

Davis. R. L. (2010). Domestic Violence-related deaths. Journal of Aggression, Conflict, and Peace Research, 2 (2), 44-52. (A review article which examines domestic violence-related suicides. Author concludes that "when domestic violence-related suicides are combined with domestic homicides, the total numbers of domestic violence-related deaths are higher for males than females.")

Langhinrichsen-Rohling, J. (2010). Controversies involving gender and intimate partner violence in the United States. Sex Roles, 62, 179-193. (Scholarly examination and analysis of the issues related to intimate partner violence. Author states that, "using behavioral measures like the Conflict Tactics Scale in general or in community samples, women have been shown rather consistently to perpetrate acts of intimate partner violence at rates comparable to or even higher than men. . .")

Could you please show me how this is 4:1?

[Lucifer]

Ummm, Light, I linked...

Ratchet: Thank you. I have several articles all in the works right now.

[Light]

Ummm, Light, I linked...

Ratchet: Thank you. I have several articles all in the works right now.

Shoot! You weren't the one that raged at me, that was Phyto ... I don't feel like reposting now. lol Your link had a source with a billion studies (maybe exaggerated a litttttle bit ) so I don't feel the need.

Sorry Luci <3 lol I thought I was replying to you. Brain slipped.

[/dev/null]

Do what I do Lucifer, give no shits. People get pissed off at the drop of a hat, myself included. About stupid shit too, caring about it will only stress yourself out. One of the things I do like about this particular forum is for the most part, people just ignore the idiocy in posts and focus on the purpose of them.

[Light]

Do what I do Lucifer, give no shits. People get pissed off at the drop of a hat, myself included. About stupid shit too, caring about it will only stress yourself out. One of the things I do like about this particular forum is for the most part, people just ignore the idiocy in posts and focus on the purpose of them.

The nicest post I've ever seen from you. lol

[Phytotron]

http://dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_v ... inst_women
http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domes ... stics.html
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/ipv9310pr.cfm


My summary response to Lucifer's page: False equivalences.


"My female boss is mean to me and makes more money than I do and women get whatever they want so it's all equal and like I knocked up this chick and of course I'm not giving that bitch any money just for incubating my sperm but she won't let me see the kid and I think really women have it better and men are oppressed so we need a men's rights movement!"

this article* was one of the first results when I googled "domestic violence men women". Admittedly that particular report wouldn't show up on the American google....

It's result #5, actually. Why would you believe it wouldn't show up in America?

As for that article, consider the source of that study.


Yeah, I have about as much sympathy for these "hey man, it's all equal, men aren't so bad" arguments as I do the "white people aren't really racist anymore, and I think colored people just play the race card and actually these days they're more racist and discriminate more because this one time..." arguments.

[Phytotron]

By the way, I just realized, that first thread of Sab's that I linked to, it contained a link to the post Lucifer was referencing in his original post: http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 931#p14931

[Light]

Okay, so now I'll start picking a few quotes from your link. Didn't read through them all yet, but we'll start with the first.

Surveys find that men and women assault one another and strike the first blow at approximately equal rates.

Men and women engage in overall comparable levels of abuse and control, such as diminishing the partner’s self-esteem, isolation and jealousy, using children and economic abuse; however, men engage in higher levels of sexual coercion and can more easily intimidate physically.
(Coker, A, Davis, K., Arias, I., Desai, S., Sanderson, M., Brandt, H., & Smith, P. (2002). Physical and mental health effects of intimate partner violence for men and women. American Journal of Preventative Medicine, 23 (4), 260-268.
Hammock, G., & O’Hearn, R. (2002). Psychological aggression in dating relationships: Predictive models for male and females. Violence and Victims, 17, 525-540.)

[Lucifer]

Phyto, your sources all use police report information to make their conclusions. That information has been proven time and time again to be unreliable for estimating total number of incidents of abuse.

In any case, your "summary" of my article shows you either didn't read it, or you didn't have an open mind. I said nothing of the sort, so your "retort" is reductio ad absurdum.

Maybe next time you can bring logic to this. And actually look at your sources and what methods they use. This Pop Psych of yours isn't working so well.

You want to see what I mean by culture of abuse? Try wearing a skirt and eyeliner the next time you go to the grocery store. You'll see what I mean (provided it's suitably busy, need a decent sample section).

[sinewav]

Okay, so now I'll start picking a few quotes from your link. Didn't read through them all yet, but we'll start with the first.

I'm only posting this as a helpful hint, so don't take offense. First, never start to refute someone by saying you didn't not read everything they offered. It is bad manners and makes you look lazy. Also, you are Cherry Picking. You stopped at the fist citation that seemed to support your viewpoint and posted. This is a bad habit. If you look at all the material presented you will see studies showing equal parts abuse are not the norm. Just like a small percentage of abuse cases are directed toward males, a small percentage of studies show abuse as even between sexes. It is also remarkable that even fewer studies show women as the primary offender.

There is a lot of information here to ingest. I don't think I will have a fully-formed opinion for a while.

Also, it seems like Lucifer is speaking from a unique viewpoint that is a little hard to follow -- at least I am having a hard time following. On one hand there is his views on domestic violence and on the other hand are issues regarding LGBT abuse. These seem a little conflated in this thread.

[Light]

Okay, so now I'll start picking a few quotes from your link. Didn't read through them all yet, but we'll start with the first.

I'm only posting this as a helpful hint, so don't take offense. First, never start to refute someone by saying you didn't not read everything they offered. It is bad manners and makes you look lazy. Also, you are Cherry Picking. You stopped at the fist citation that seemed to support your viewpoint and posted. This is a bad habit. If you look at all the material presented you will see studies showing equal parts abuse are not the norm. Just like a small percentage of abuse cases are directed toward males, a small percentage of studies show abuse as even between sexes. It is also remarkable that even fewer studies show women as the primary offender.

I just didn't check out the others yet because I didn't have time, though I know I should have held off on a response then. But, as for the cherry picking part, I didn't really mean to if it seems I did. I just used the context links to jump to the section that discussed the topic we have going on here.

Mind linking me to where it's shown it's not the norm that they even out? At least closely .. Everything I've found so far when comparing rates shows them pretty even.

Edit: It may also help if I point out that I don't really have a stance on this at the moment. I don't know one way or the other, but I'm just pointing out what I've seen. I'll look up further, but it would be helpful if you pointed me to ones that would be properly done and unbiased.

[sinewav]

Mind linking me to where it's shown it's not the norm that they even out? At least closely .. Everything I've found so far when comparing rates shows them pretty even.

That's why you should look at the links Phytotron provided before you draw a conclusion. You will notice the vast majority of studies show a staggering proportion of women as victims compared to men.

I understand there are a lot of social factors that cause male abuse to be under reported. I have not determined if those factors were controlled for in all these studies.

[Light]

Phytotron provided before you draw a conclusion. You will notice the vast majority of studies show a staggering proportion of women as victims compared to men.

I understand there are a lot of social factors that cause male abuse to be under reported. I have not determined if those factors were controlled for in all these studies.

Pointing to them, what do you think about Luci's comment of them? Yes, I could (and will) look at the stats given there, but if they're not credible, I can't really draw much of a conclusion from it.

If they do point out what you say, then I'm kind'a stuck in not knowing which ones I should trust over others.