Lower the Rubber

[DaGarBBaGeMAN]

What vov said.

Low rubber means, less speed, harder cuts (which means more holes), no double grinding, no centering, and tougher mazing.

The fact is that sumo is very integrated with fortress. If you change fortress' settings, then you'll have to change sumo's settings too, otherwise there is no uniformity. I doubt the sumo community will be fine with lowering the rubber, because it will make it much harder for them to maze and tunnel. For this reason, I say that fortress activity will go down. People already prefer sumo over fortress nowadays - do you really think they would leave a sumo server to play in a fortress server with settings that they're not even used to?

Again, I'm not being a wuss. I'm fine with a separate, low rubber tourney, but why turn the entire gameplay of fortress around?

[vov]

Because they want to, look, they even have a cute petition running!

While I'm at that: If you end up taking my settings suggestion instead or someone else really likes them I wouldn't want you to replace all traditional fort with it. Thanks for consideration.

[Concord]

No. Fortress needs its rubber.

No thanks... Like over said, while rubber may have disadvantages, it also accounts for most of the gameplay that makes fortress so dynamic.

+1

I'd opt for slightly stronger/more brakes and acceleration and less base speed instead, I actually tried that and it works and it makes it more tense than no rubber.
Because, think of it: No rubber means much much lower speed. And speed is what makes plays. What you will end up with without rubber is like local game vs. bots, no fancy moves at all, no interest.

I also tried the opposite; 50 rubber fort. It's so whacky it's fun again (but not for competitive ofc)

edit: concord: speed, that is what rubber gives, see above

actually, driving parallel to walls is what creates acceleration. rubber does get you slightly closer to walls, but this creates very very minimal increased acceleration. also, less time spent grinding things means the entire game is faster paced and more fluid. furthermore less rubber means more accessible tunnels and tunneling, which will create a more dynamic game, not less. if you're theory is true that going 60 m/s instead of 62 m/s will turn fort players into high rubber players, acceleration could be minimally increased.

rubber eliminates a lot of diversity in game play because the solution is just to grind shit. think of how much more intense the game would be if people can't just seal things.

and you are a wuss. rubber is for pussies. get it?

[Word]

It's like when states raise the tax on cigarettes

But here we have a change that doesn't necessarily make fortress more popular. Why not let some people play with rubber and some without?

rubber eliminates a lot of diversity in game play because the solution is just to grind shit. think of how much more intense the game would be if people can't just seal things.

and you are a wuss. rubber is for pussies. get it?

As I said in my other post, I think the opposite will happen. You'll see more pussies than ever before.

[Concord]

popularity does not come from accessibility. literally every other game mode is more accessible than fortress. popularity comes from the quality of game play and the quality of players. lower rubber increases both.

You'll see more pussies than ever before.

and you'll see those cowardly players getting destroyed by the better ones and then they will not be cowards and instead of hiding behind their five rubber they will come out and play the game. anyway, I'm seeing a lot right now.

[vov]

Getting speed would be more risky and lag will kill and not forgive. Lag is INTENSE!!! And you know as well as I do that the only situation without lag is a LAN game.
Tunnels? Who the f*** will tunnel when it is VERY easy to just set up a rubberless trap which only magglass' bot could tunnel? Seal a left corner with RLLLR and boom no tunnelers. It's already effective in games WITH rubber but having no way to turn back in a tunnel, no one will tunnel in the first place. And you should know that I know what I am talking about with tunnels.

Edit for Concord above: Cool, tunnelers, center attacks, people with 90 speed, they are all cowards!

[Word]

popularity comes from the quality of game play and the quality of players. lower rubber increases both.

Center attacks, defending and normal attacking will become harder - and I'd like that - but I doubt it'll increase the accessibility of the game, if anything. and moreover it won't help anyone to learn how to handle rubber, how to outdig someone. Sure, ideally they wouldn't have to learn this, but as I said it could backfire later, if we decide to get the rubber back at some point.

you'll see those cowardly players getting destroyed by the better ones

Oh man, you've never seen xdude. first rule in tron: cowards win

[Concord]

lag's effect on gameplay is marginal. lag kills you when you are trying to outgrind 3.5 at the same frequency it kills you when you try to outgrind 0.5. you are also dramatically overstating the amount of rubber needed for lag compensation.

as for cowards, those who wouldn't enter a tunnel without the safety net of 180ing and 5 rubber are cowards indeed.


accessibility is pointless if the product is crap. for example, literal crap is damn accessible, but we still flush it down the toilet.

[DaGarBBaGeMAN]

and you are a wuss. rubber is for pussies. get it?

lol xD

I'm not one for long winded arguments. If this came down to a vote, I'd be very against it. However, I'd be for creating an extra tourney just for low rubber. That's just my stance.

[Soul]

No

Your message contains 20 characters. The minimum number of characters you need to enter is 21.

[vov]

Lag killed me today in the ladle in every instance, no matter if I was tunneling or driving idly around. In that case, you're right, lag kills where and when it wants.
Making people unable to play is very marginal indeed, sir.
And on the coward point, everyone would be a coward at a tournament, look at how passive it already is given the current tournaments where it stays 6v6 without deaths for 10 minutes. And yes, I am talking about you too, I know how you play at tournaments dear thread starters. Or, cowards, in your own words.

[Concord]

if everyone is a coward, what have we got to lose by speeding up the whole 6v6 for ten minutes thing by getting rid of the rubber?

please explain how lowering rubber prevents people from playing.

I'm going to ignore comments about my gameplay, especially false ones. They are irrelevant to this topic. If you want to talk about how I play the game, you're welcome to start another thread. If you'd rather settle it on the grid, that's fine too.

[Goodygumdrops]

In a typical display of ignorance and jackassery, the fort community has managed to get me to disagree with every poster on both sides of the issue.

This thread would be better if the OP included a specific number that he would like to change the rubber to, otherwise we don't really know what we're arguing for or against.

I would be surprised if anyone can make a reasoned argument supported by facts that lowering rubber to 3 in fortress would make the game worse.

[LOVER$BOY]

Lowering the rubber to 3... man, that's going to be intense and a disadvantage for the defenders. You can't dig that much and stuff like that.

I'm not the aggressive type, not when I know LAG so well. Anyway, I don't play much. I merely play for fun. So, it doesn't really bother me anymore if rubber goes up or down.

And yes, I am talking about you too, I know how you play at tournaments dear thread starters. Or, cowards, in your own words.

I'm going to ignore comments about my gameplay, especially false ones. They are irrelevant to this topic. If you want to talk about how I play the game, you're welcome to start another thread. If you'd rather settle it on the grid, that's fine too.

Calm down, you two... Let's not fight and lose track of our objective here.

I agree with vov. With lower rubber, some players (not everyone) would find it highly difficult to play. Especially difficult to play when the annoying form of LAG decides to make you slide and die. On the other hand, I also agree with you. The current intensity of the fortress play is quite dull, especially when there aren't many players on at playing. I do however have some misgiving for the defender. I was a defender myself and had to defend the base, desperately against 3 continuous attacks.

You are right. No matter what rubber is set to, LAG will remain. With the current systems and the technology at our disposal, lag will always be there to annoy the devil out of us.

You talk of cowards like it's something you have a right to say. Right, I'm sure most tronners are cowards, including myself. Why? Because we find it better to be on our guard against LAG than go all out and fight like a man. Oh, I am a man and I do fight like one but not on the net. The trouble is, lag counters every one of my best moves and put me at a sad position.

My Drive:
I'm more of a Speed vs Rubber type really into reducing rubber just for the sake of what others say. My intensity comes from the amazing speeds and fast turns and twists. Reducing the speed would merely make the whole thing quick and easy and I'm not much for it.
Increase speed? Definitely!

[Gonzap]

it wouldn't, for people with 10 to 80 ping it wouldn't, maybe it'd be even better. It would only punish people with weak nets, common slides or lag spikes, like spanniards, south americans, and usa and eu players that compete on the opposite server. Lowering rubber to 3 would make me die everytime I lag into a wall and survive with 4.5 rubber due to experience dodging these problems.

It would also punish everyone if the server is unstable itself.