global warming (its a money spinner)

[radian]

i done the leg work for my self
because i like to get to the truth rather than being told that im,e being told the truth
it is of no consequence to me which side of the fence anyone here falls on
i have no axe to grind

no one can say for sure how quick the change will be,as i said before
there are a lot of solar physicists who are very concerned at current events
but unfortunately they are being ignored if they dont tow the current political line
as are many respected scientists.and i believe that is because the governments are using the current climate change as a taxing tool-ie driving my 4 by 4/ flying in planes.its bollox
the oceans can release more c 02 in a day than every plane flying continually for a whole year
i just hate being lied to - and when i think something fishy is going on
thats when i start to look at the facts

much of the legwork has already been revealed in my posts
and i am not about to start getting three years of links together for anyone here

so go dig

700 years ago was known as the mini ice age (the medieval period)
its these events we need to concentrate on-ice core samples have shown climate change can happen on a relatively small time scale,,10 or 30 years or so
so yes,i believe it is very important to challenge what we are being told
i have 2 children,,it is them and their children that will live with the consequences of what the poloticians decide today--and when i see inconstancies in what i am being told-i will challange it

[Phytotron]

Hmm, I'm not on your side, Radian. Perhaps you should follow those links I provided.

Notice, I didn't just say, "hey, go look for it, it's all there!" Guess what, on the interweb, all of it really is there. One can find "sources" supporting any half-cocked, lame-brained thing you want, but that doesn't mean it's credible. It doesn't mean it meets rational or empirical rigor. You either possess very poor critical thinking skills and have consequently been terribly mislead by a bunch of hucksters (be it the fossil fuel industry, religionists, anti-government extremists, and/or simple idiotic contrarians), and/or came into the subject with a presupposed conclusion anyway and merely found the "facts" to support that, conveniently provided to you by the aforementioned hucksters. Either way, in the end you're still a bullshitting, paranoid looney.

[radian]

im,e not here to persuade you
and i dont care if you agree with me or not
i have the facts for myself and it took a long time to go thru
so you can believe the spin if you want
i choose not too

all the data i looked at was based on good scientific practice
and ice core data from the greenland and antartic ice sheets
time does not lie



thread closed

[Phytotron]

Then why the hell would you start up the topic? And you're going to demand that we all go look up your bullshit to which you won't even provide sources, but you refuse to do the same in turn when someone counters with actual sources? Thread closed? Are you flipping kidding?

Listen to me! The world is flat! No, listen to me, damnit! I know it to be flat and have a lot of reasons why. No, I don't care what you or anyone else says, no shut up, I know it to be true, shut up, no no! End of discussion!

F'ck off.

[radian]

hmm
i have seen the same reaction to anyone who dares go against government spin
chill out dude

i like a good debate
not a playground slanging match

if you want to beleive what the guys in charge are saying ,thats fine dude-up to you

[Hoax]

Don't you see what radian is trying to do? It's all part of his master plan to get us to believe nothing's going to change, then when all the ice melts, bam, more water space for him to kayak on...
ps. the house of lords isn't neutral

[kyle]

the only case I can see for global warming other than of course positioning of us in the multiverse is that CFC's that cause the ozone to decay that could let more solar heat into the earth and i think those CFC's are cause by humans. However the media / politics have blown it way out of proportion before all the facts are in. But maybe these holes will help stop a global cooling.

[radian]

this future picture app is rather worrying
apparently this is me popping out for some ciggies in 2030

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a very good point there kyle
and one that is being vigorously debated at the moment
as is the effect of solar backwash from the particulates bouncing 20 % of sunlight back out into space

i wonder how history will view the political argument for warming ?00 years from now, when much of the worlds crops are not growing due to decreasing temperatures

damn i thought the house of lords was supposed to be neutral
just found out they lean heavily towards urban bowling---wooooop wooooop !!

thankfully there is some melting before the big freeze
and i am going to make the most of it with this

http://kayakmaran.pbworks.com/FrontPage

[Lucifer]

Um, the issue with CO2 release isn't the source of the CO2, it's the source of the carbon part of the CO2. The oceans just release carbon that was already in the atmosphere at some point, airplanes release carbon that was locked under the earth's crust for millions of years.

It's *that* carbon that's scary, because it means the CO2 levels are increasing over time and will not decrease. The question is whether or not we're releasing enough to cause the earth's temperatures to rise faster than earth's lifeforms can adapt.

[radian]

yea
the effects of the carbon norm added to what us humans have added is an unknown factor
but what is also very interesting is the way the carbon ppm (parts per million) seems to be reacting to temperature and not the other way around

there are of course fluctuations aswell
as seen in the ice core data graph below

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the large blue temperature level off to our current time is our Holocene period 10,500 years ,and is the longest interglacial period ever recorded.we started burning our fossil fuels 150 years ago and as you can see the c 02 shoots up in a vertical line to 360 ppmv,the temperature has not responded yet along this c 02 increase,and that may be due to the oceanic heat sink affect.

[Word]

source? or did you draw that diagram by yourself?

[Lucifer]

There is a secondary issue of deforestation. We started doing *that* 2000 years ago.

(I know, I usually don't make this argument, but it is there)

The basic argument here is that we started burning trees and stuff without replacing them a long time ago, and the process has grown so badly over time that there's real concerns now. Most western countries are in the process of reforestation right now, but the up and coming third world countries that are in the process of industrializing are deforesting themselves.

That process results in higher atmospheric CO2 levels as well.

Not to mention that CO2 isn't the only greenhouse gas we're producing, it's just the one we talk about the most.

You keep mentioning that this is the longest interglacial period recorded like you expect it to end soon. The global warming scientists are saying the reason it's such a long interglacial period is because of human activity. Furthermore, the sun data you've hinted at isn't there. If the sun was releasing more energy, then we'd also record temperature rises on other planets, and we haven't seen that. We've been watching other planets and taking temperature readings for 20-30 years now, and they're not rising, at least not the way they're supposed to if the current temperature rising on the earth is caused by the sun. The correlation just isn't there.

The argument isn't whether or not the planet is warming. It is, it is definitely warming. The argument is whether or not we caused it, and if we did, can we change our activities to stop the warming, or even reverse it?

In either case, what do we need to do to adapt to the rising temperatures? And how quickly do we need to do it?

[radian]

draw it myself lol
have you seen my drawings,there awful

no it is from ice core data charts
these are very accurate,they can even tell how much pollen was in the air in any given year
they are like a frozen glimpse into the past

solar sunspot activity should peak again in 2013-14 due to the 11 year cycle
however the long solar cycle activity does mirror the mini ice age of 1600-1700 ad

[owned]

but what is also very interesting is the way the carbon ppm (parts per million) seems to be reacting to temperature and not the other way around

there are of course fluctuations aswell
as seen in the ice core data graph below

IceCores1.gif

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I'm not sure what graph you're looking at, but the ppm doesn't look like it is reacting to temperature in this one. It looks like they're even. But considering the intervals on it are 50,000 years, that's not a surprise.

Anyways, here is the scientific opinion on climate change: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f ... /5702/1686

Also, note that no major scientific body at the moment is known to reject the fact that climate change is occurring and is caused by humans.

[akira]

Actually CO² is the least "dangerous" greenhouse gas. Water steam is the major heat trapping gas in the atmosphere.
CO² concentration will revert to a somewhat balanced level due to photosynthesis, if left alone. Of course cutting all the woods and generally eliminating plant-life while reproducing humans and cows/pigs isn't going to help there.

There is still alot of discussion about the causes of the change. I for one would assume sun activity and deforestation.

Besides that it is obvious that there is a clear eco-political agenda behind the CO² scare. And before I get labelled as lunatic or whatever, please try to think and observe the latest historical processes. I am not speaking of secret circles or annunaki or such crap. I am speaking of an easy to observe hierarchy with an absurd power concentration at the top.

There are several implications by running large scale propganda (H1N1 falls in the same category).

- most obvious : creating fear and diversion to hinder questioning the ongoing power/wealth transfer from top to the bottom, the wars and the whole misery we put our planet in
- creating controversy : you can easily steer masses by creating a large scale event/situation and then spearhead a few major sides in the follwoing controversy (example: the esoteric conspiracy theorists vs. status quo mainstream press/followers). That was done alot of times in history by the way.
- creating markets and artifical scarcity : good example would be the enforcement of powersaving lightbulbs in EU by 2010/11. While this is per se surely not bad, the actual bulbs are highly controversial again. They are hightech products containing highly toxic heavy metals. Also the high blue fraction of their light may have psychological effects on humans. Again this was never tested at all.

These are just a few examples of the power of creating events / situations and reaping the rewards for the system. In a system of hierarchic power distribution it is highly likely that the top starts to shape the system.