Ladle 17

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:24 am

Monkey wrote:Yes, ok, he got phished but that is in the past and he has learnt from it and people should not make fun at him for it any more. For f***s hake guys, give the guy a break. I trout that salmon would be able to fool him again.

epsy wrote:Excuse me, but you are the only to make fun out of him here...and you are telling us to relax on him? what the hell, dude..

Hoax wrote:Who's making fun of durka except you, monkey?

Monkey wrote:epsy and hoax: Jeezus christ, it's all part of a joke, wake up.

bad joke

Anyways, I think TR is going to rent a server from Luke-Jr again, which would give us a very stable US server on the east coast (aka Euro's will probably have better ping than me).

I'm also all for the randomizing of servers, but until we can find 2 stable American servers, I think Z-Man's Server should be the sight of the the finals since in the past, it has proven to be the *best* (depending on what you consider the 'best' to be).

Also, addressing the issue of the number of teams, let's just see how many signup and go from there. We have time.

1200 · Post by **1200** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:30 am

Random would be nice but how is that supposed to be carried out???
Do we just let somebody do it and take his words???
Or is there a better way so that we know that its not fabricated...

Corn1 · Post by **Corn1** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:03 am

I would be really happy if the ladle expanded, i really want fortress to strive and the fact that teams could be locked out of the ladle just because we are too lazy to expand the challange board doesnt make sense.

now im not trying to say that we should risk the organization of the ladle and confuse everyone but i want to get as many teams in the ladle as possible as long as they are commited to it.

As for servers, i can play pretty much just as well on both american and euro servers as i have gotten used to a high ping playing cafe so much, as long as the server doesn't slide i couldn't care less about my ping.

owned · Post by **owned** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:05 am

Realistically, I think we will have 9 teams. But lets address each situation. Here's how I think it should be:
7 teams: one team gets a bye into the semis.
8 teams: proceed as regular.
9 teams: 9 and 8 fight for the 8th spot. Then it proceeds as regular. (probably best to have them be two of the non-fort clans. For future ladles, those two will be randomly chosen teams that were not in the top 4 of the previous ladle.)
10 teams: 4 teams play in 2 2v2 matches to determine who makes the Best to have the non fort teams play here. For future ladles, it'll be will be randomly chosen teams that were not in the top 4 of the previous ladle.)
11 teams: (long shot) 6 teams play in 3 2v2 matches to determine who makes the quarterfinals. 5 teams get byes. Then it proceeds as regular. (best to have four top teams from previous ladle and one random get byes. If one or more of the top 4 teams from the previous ladle are not participating, then the remainder will be chosen at random.)
12 teams: (really long shot) 8 teams play in 4 2v2 matches to determine who makes the quarterfinals. 4 teams get byes. (preferably the 4 teams that were in the top 4 in the previous ladle. If one or more of the top 4 teams from the previous ladle are not participating, then they will be randomly chosen.)

Yes, this does heavily favor the top 4 teams. But that's how it should be.
This not only gives incentive to do well, but it gives some of the weaker teams a chance at winning.

Monkey wrote: I agree with hoop that team positions in the table should be random. The new teams don't even want to have any special treatment for being new. Maybe we could have seedings for the top teams, like in most sports competitions, to prevent the best teams from meeting each other too early on?

I think that the top 4 teams from the previous ladle should be set out like this (other than those spots, everything else should be randomly chosen)

1-x 4-x 3-x 2-x

where x is another team and this is the quarterfinal matchup. This'll save the best games for last. The reason we can't do seeding past this is that there are too many open teams and random groups that only go to one ladle and don't go to the next.

Hopefully we'll reach the day where we can have 16 teams and all of this planning isn't required.

Lackadaisical · Post by **Lackadaisical** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:48 am

We can randomize the teams on irc with armabot, you just give it a couple of names and it gives them back randomly. Because it happens in a public (arma.tourneys?) channel there will be a lot of witnesses around.

The problem with >8 teams is that it just takes a whole lot of time.
But anyway, if we are doing more than eight teams we could do it sort of like this (basically a generalized version of what owned was talking about):

The top 4 teams get Team 1, Team 2, Team 3, Team 4 (irc armabot will be used to determine who gets Team 3 and who gets Team 4) The rest of the teams will be randomized by armabot and assigned Team 5 up to Team N, where N is the number of teams there are. Teams N+1 up to Team 16 are of course bye's for the teams that face them. Then we'll have the following eighth finals:

Team 1
Team 16

Team 12
Team 8

Team 4
Team 13

Team 9
Team 5

Team 3
Team 14

Team 10
Team 8

Team 2
Team 15

Team 11
Team 7

1200 · Post by **1200** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:17 pm

Nice one Lacka! Thats sounds cool.
Maybe in the future something like that could be used like a coin toss to decide which server a match will take.
Maybe we can do that to decide the server of the final for this Ladle! (that is if a mostly US team faces against mostly Euro team in the final)

PS: for EVA i depended on the currency fluctuation....if US$ went up against Euro we started on a US server first. This is much better.

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:36 pm

Corn1 wrote:I would be really happy if the ladle expanded, i really want fortress to strive and the fact that teams could be locked out of the ladle just because we are too lazy to expand the challange board doesnt make sense.

now im not trying to say that we should risk the organization of the ladle and confuse everyone but i want to get as many teams in the ladle as possible as long as they are commited to it.

I'm not saying we should close out teams, but I just don't think we will be able to fill 8 full teams this time.

I had these hypothetical discussions, but hopefully these teams show:

1) Our Team Name (Freako's team)
2) Twisted Rats
3) Moon Unit (1200's team)
4) Crazy Tronners
5) |x|
6) DS
7) WW + ID
8) R3P + randoms (R3P only has about 4)

I could see another Open Team developing (or even 2), but I think it would be best to place the randoms on random teams to fill them up completely.

Maybe we should add under Team 8 a list called The Pool and we'll see how many players want to just play for whomever (OT 1, 2, etc). Then we can get an idea of the numbers count for this Ladle.

And of course, if a new team like Clan HAX0RZ or something all of a sudden wants to play, then we'll expand the Challenge Board, but until then, let's see how it fills up.

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:02 am

Ok, to make things easy, this is what we're doing.

If you look at the Challenge Board, you no longer sign up as "Team 1 is..." but you just add your team under the "Teams List" section.

Then, on the Wednesday before the Ladle (so on December 3rd for this Ladle), we will do Lack's idea with armabot randomly choosing the teams.

1200 · Post by **1200** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:45 am

What happened to Lacka's great idea????
It doesn't seem that difficult at all? You don't even need to get a rep from every team, maybe another person or two as witnesses.
Instead of doin' it in your bedroom why not do it in the arma irc channel.

It's not that i don't trust you, i think it makes it more legit and professional.

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:15 am

1200 wrote:What happened to Lacka's great idea????
It doesn't seem that difficult at all? You don't even need to get a rep from every team, maybe another person or two as witnesses.
Instead of doin' it in your bedroom why not do it in the arma irc channel.

It's not that i don't trust you, i think it makes it more legit and professional.

edited.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:27 pm

I like it...I like it a lot...

owned · Post by **owned** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:12 pm

with top 2 teams on opposite sides?

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:15 am

owned wrote:with top 2 teams on opposite sides?

How do you classify the top 2 teams?

Unless the players in the Ladle are the exact same ones as the Ladle before, then they're can't be 2 top teams.

K-Yo · Post by **K-Yo** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:25 am

agreed

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:52 am

Seeding in professional sports tournaments often uses human discretion so even if teams don't have identical players to last time you can make educated estimates as to the best two teams.

I have started a list of players that want to play (or are at least interested) but currently have no team. I have put a link to it on the Ladle challenge board page. Anyone can edit it accordingly. It should help us in obvious ways.
http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php? ... rs_no_team