Tracker discussion

What do you want to see in Armagetron soon? Any new feature ideas? Let's ponder these ground breaking ideas...
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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

The complicated cases for bugs you make up matter relatively little in practice, I would say. Sure, it's possible for a bug to affect 0.2.8.2, be merged back in time to affect 0.3.0 and be fixed in 0.2.8.3 and 0.3.1, while a different bug may affect only 0.2.8.2. I'd simply set it up so all bugs reported for 0.2.8.2 are also treated as if they affect 0.3.0, even if that's not correct in all cases. We can list deviations in the bug's description (and later in extra affected versions). What matters is that we have that list of bugs for stable versions. For development versions, we get a list of bugs that may affect it that will be pretty good with a little excess. We can also introduce bogus versions into the branch, say 0.2.8->0.3.0 as the last point of the 0.2.8 branch that was merged into 0.3.0; 0.3.0 can inherit all bugs and fixes from there. I think we'll later be able to hide those versions. It's good enough to be useful either way.

Letting the buildbot do the bugfix marking sounds good, the delay won't hurt nobody. Ideally, we'll even let it run unit tests (not just the build) to prove that the bug really was fixed, and the unit tests without the fixing commit that verifies that the tests written really test the bugfix. I'll put that on the "if we have nothing better to do" list, though.

Yeah, my long term memory was failing me with the anonymous commits :) Against the spambots, we could use a javascript mangled mailto: link that changes its value daily to some unguessable name. You can bet that any longtime visible mail address gets 100 messages a day, and even if 10 of them get through, that's plenty of work for us. I light of that complication, anonymous submits via a web form may be a better idea. If all else fails: user "guest", password "guest". We'd lose the important communication channel with the user then, though.

If the thing is reasonably simple to set up (so far, I had better experiences with Python based apps here), I can run it. My server isn't fast, but the bug tracker won't attract as any users as the forums or the Wiki, so that should be fine.

Do I get this right? The xml-rpc stuff of flyspray itself is currently unmaintained and disabled, so we'd need to adopt it?
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Post by Lucifer »

Well, I think we need one and only one email address for bugs because we'll pass that around all over the place, and it'll reach a point where we can't guarantee the address is always mangled. Instead, I think we're better off having it on a mail server with good spam protection and very little false positives, if any. A false positive on a bug report may not be disaster, but it's definitely not good. But this is an email address that'll be included in packages (which can't be mangled properly every time), distribution packages (Mandriva and Ubuntu make their own...), listed on freshmeat and other software aggregates, etc. So can somebody answer the question, does gmail allow pop access? Faililng that, does it allow some sort of web service access that we can use?

Yes, we'd have to adopt the xml-rpc. Ummm, I have an ulterior motive for being interested in this in particular. To my knowledge, no open source tracker has good xml-rpc *and* other good stuff. Trac's was still planned last time I checked. My stupid text editor has a broke-ass embedded tracker that I'd like to a) fix and b) offer other integration techniques, so it can support everything I do with it. So I'm willing to personally adopt the xml-rpc stuff (which is what makes my previous experience with it somewhat relevant, I just need to learn internals of flyspray or whatever tracker to do it). I'm not willing to adopt it for trac because I've looked at code for both and I'd rather not even try to hack on trac. But for us, we would need to adopt it so we can be sure it works for us all the time, or that somebody will fix it even if I don't have time or whatever.

After that, which will hopefully happen pretty quickly, to make the buildbot handle it we need a notifier in the buildbot and a program that takes the notifications and updates the tracker. This can take many forms, but the best is for it to get its own complete svn log for the revision and scan since its last time (the first time it would have to scan for all time, obviously) looking for the string match, and if the buildbot said it built correctly with some conditionals, it'll close the bug. Otherwise, it should post a comment with a link to the build information. Or whatever we want it to do.

Then we get somewhat off tracker discussion. :) Armabot needs a buildbot plugin for build updates, and for querying the tracker. It might also get a program for querying documentation, there's a guy in #qt who maintains a supybot plugin that does exactly that. I asked him for the source, I'll probably need to nag him a bit for it. So what I'll get out of doing the builbot-tracker integration is two plugins, one that adds tracker integration to supybot and one that adds buildbot integration to supybot.

Yeah, if you want to host the tracker, knock yourself out. :) We can flip a coin, or you can just do it. Now, if you can figure out how to get some of these other guys around here to go test it and tell us what they think, that would really rock.
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Post by Jonathan »

Lucifer wrote:So can somebody answer the question, does gmail allow pop access?
Yes, although you'll have to use the web interface to see if anything was wrongly marked as spam (haven't seen that yet, and it does mark pretty much 100% of the spam as spam).

I use Gmail for public e-mail so I don't have to expose my other main address to even more spam. Both get tens per day at the moment.
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Post by Z-Man »

I shouted at the others a bit in IRC, let's see if that gets them moving.

What's fundamentally wrong with, instead of distributing the email address, to distribute the link to the page with the (changing) email address instead, where we can conveniently already show a list of already reported bugs?

My zero knowledge in PHP and xml-rpc and flyspray practically disqualifies me for that maintenance job. "Practically" because in theory, I could learn all of that, but I don't really feel like it.
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Post by Tank Program »

z-man wrote:I shouted at the others a bit in IRC, let's see if that gets them moving.
I heard the shout... but it's not loading now.
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Post by Lucifer »

Hm, I don't know what was wrong, but it's working now.

Edit: Well, the buildbot is anyway.

Ok, the rest is working again. No idea what happened. It was acting like an IP address change, but some of the sites on that server still worked. :( Anyway, one of the things I did worked to fix it, or it fixed itself magically. Couldn't tell you what, though.
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Tank Program
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Post by Tank Program »

Well, I've registered now... name of Tank Program. Real agonizing weather to be Tank or Guru3 :/. Maybe I should just adopt one or the other.
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Post by Z-Man »

What about "Tank Guru"?
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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft »

Umm yeah. I registred, but now I have less rights than the anonymous user. I can't even create a new task…
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Post by wrtlprnft »

Ah, thanks to whoever read this.
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Post by Lucifer »

Aha, fixed. :)
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Post by Lucifer »

Add to my trac rant: spam. No way to delete tickets when they are spam. What a pain. :(

So, I fixed my trac installation. I was tailing the apache error log, and left the tail on by accident, and when I went to my konsole, I saw a traceback that told me what to do to fix it. Now my template's broken, so I've had to revert to the default template while I get it sorted out. What a pain. :( Anyway, I discovered the tracker's been spammed, so now I'm going to have to require registration to post. That's annoying, but it's considered such a common solution to this problem that few try to find other fixes. If it were php, I'd get bad behavior stuck in there, but with python it's a bit trickier.

Anyway, performance seems to have increased quite a bit. So go check out my trac installation and let me know what you think of it. I'd like you guys that are actually looking at the tracker to do some sort of comparison. Not much, even "I like flyspray better than trac" is good enough. I'm interested how you think the tracker will fit your workflow.

http://dsac.davefancella.com/ <--- my trac installation
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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft »

Trac:
+ RSS
+ Has all the basic features
+ Quite fast
+ Small file sizes (~5 KB of HTML on a bug page, everything else can be cached)
+ Mostly valid XHTML strict
- Not UNIX (do one thing and do it well)

Flyspray
+ RSS
+ Dedicated bug tracker
+ Valid XHTML strict
+ Dependency graphs. Niiice :)
+ Jabber support, which would be great for instant notifications (though armabot integration would be better). Unfortunately I haven't got this to work :(
- Huge pages (come on, 21KB for a simple bug page?!). Bug list pages are even worse because they contain ~12KB of the advanced search feature and 1.5KB of user permissions, stuff you just won't use 98% of the times you load a page. That should really be either loaded via AJAX or just simply linked to.

Based on the cool features of flyspray I'd prefer to use it as a tracker, but maybe not on someone's home server, the pages are too big for that :S
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Tank Program
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Post by Tank Program »

How big is a forums page? A wiki page?
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Post by Lucifer »

Also, flyspray loads some ajax stuff on some of the pages, with the intent of doing more later. I don't think this affects the current bug page wrtlprnft is talking about, but it will affect it at some point. Which means higher initial loading times to load all the ajax widgets, then fast responses when only the data is loaded between clicks.
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