win the 8th tronic ladle from speeders

Sticky · Post by **Sticky** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:47 pm

To bring back an old idea of mine what is the possibility of having a spectator server? So a spectator bot logs into the game then relays it to a second machine/net connection that spectators can then log into and observe. This would then allow spectators to chat amongst themselves without disturbing the game, would not effect the players pings/lag due to extra work load on the server and be easier to administer as you would not have to worry about spectators joining the game or trying to influence it.

Being unfamiliar with the tron engine I don’t know how easy this would be. One way I was thinking is would it be possible for the server to make a recording then be cat’ed on the fly to a secondary location, could spectators then load and read that recording on the fly? This would not allow for spectator chat I presume but would allow for individual spectating.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:57 pm

The disadvantage of the recording thing mainly is that it won't work for everyone; recordings like to break a lot, they're not really designed for the use case at hand.

I've got one or two ideas on how to implement a spectator only proxy; it's possible in the overall architecture, the main problem is that a proxy would be server an client at once, and there's millions of tests in the code that do different things depending on the current role. Maybe multiplexing can work, let the proxy act as a server while talking to the connected spectators and let it act as a client when talking to the server, and make it not send anything to the server at all apart from ack messages. It's hacky, but it could work. Clients would be restricted to versions after a version determined by the proxy admin, and the server admin needs to allow old style spectators.

Lacrymosa · Post by **Lacrymosa** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:32 pm

You've asked why we should play further ladles without spectators, here's my opinion: As far as I know, the situation is nearly everytime the same: A spectator enters the game, maybe he just wants to watch it, maybe he wants to distract some players. After a few seconds, there will be one player who starts a poll and that's what's annoying me. Polls over polls...
If this could be solved, I would have no problem with specs.
Or maybe I just disable the whole chat next time as even my own team distracts a lot.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:43 pm

In the final, I simply had polls disabled. Solved the annoying polls problem quite effectively

The first spectator got through and entered the game before I could kick him, I was busy setting the score table in another window.

~*PsYkO*~ · Post by **~*PsYkO*~** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:49 pm

z-man wrote:About the balancing: The book of rules says anything below 8 players is your problem. If you want to change that, discuss and put the result up on the Wiki; I personally wouldn't mind lowering the limit to encourage smaller teams to take part.

I think this is a good idea to a certain extent..I actually like the rule when you have 2 teams that have a lot of free members (13, 14l, 15) So you c an gain an advantage if your players care enough to show up, brings another aspect to the TOURNAMENT settings.

That's a mighty strange definition of a bad day, and of course no excuse.

On saturday my 7 yr old cousin's 6 month old dog got run over, i had bronchitis, i got kicked out of a FRAT party because my friends and i werent wearing proper attire (it was a semi formal) then we went to a club and i had to pay 30 dollars to get in cuz i am under 21..didnt have fun in the club..then we left to find that my car window was bashed and things were stolen...I LIVE IN MICHIGAN..Try driving 30 minutes home without one of your windows when it is less than 0 degrees outside. Sunday i had to tape up my car in freezing conditions AND I missed the ladle because the only good thing happened (i went on a date and it went so well cuz it went overtime

So yeh man, sorry that you couldn't go fishing, you saw your cousins AND you couldn't play in the ladle

My thoughts and prayers go out to you

About "payback": punishment for misbehavior is not for individual players to decide, not during a match, anyway. Besides, I couldn't find anything in last ladle's logs supporting the accusations, at least not at a scale that would justify the response. The logs of that are still public, so I'm willing to revert my opinion on that, but regardless, the ladle and any other tournament is no place for silly feuds.

I'm trying to help with this as well, I recently made a post on our member's only section discussing this. It is far better being the bigger man, so to speak, than continue a immature feud that not only takes a toll on the teams, but the server admins, the tournament admins, the other teams, and random players.

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:20 pm

The distractions to Rico in ladle 7 were in wrtl's server not Z's so I don't know where you're looking.

Joe: Wow that's you on the forums here? It's amazing how you use perfect grammar here, yet on our forums it looks like you're in 1st grade.

About the no spectators thing: For each spectator that spectates, they add extra lag to the server. For example, if you were in a server just bye yourself, then 15 spectators joined, you would become very laggy. It's hard enough playing with 200+ ping and 25 fps. So, give us American players a break and try and limit the amount of "unneccesary lag" that gets added to the server. No spectators please.

About the winzone: Yes, 6 minutes is a long time, but if you're that patient to be fighting someone for 6 minutes, you can gather up some strength to continue fighting them until someone dies. You've both been working hard for 6 minutes, so why should the offensive person (who is always closer to the winzone) be able to go and take the winzone. After all, it's the defense that is stronger if the offense can't get in. No winzone.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:52 pm

DDMJ wrote:About the no spectators thing: For each spectator that spectates, they add extra lag to the server. For example, if you were in a server just bye yourself, then 15 spectators joined, you would become very laggy. It's hard enough playing with 200+ ping and 25 fps. So, give us American players a break and try and limit the amount of "unneccesary lag" that gets added to the server. No spectators please.

Depends on the resources that are available. If the server isn't hogged by 15 spectators and there is lots of spare bandwidth the effect is negligible.

~*PsYkO*~ · Post by **~*PsYkO*~** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:58 pm

O yeh, also my car ran out of gas on saturday coming hoem from my relatives and again I live in MI..so I got out and started running into the wind :'(

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:28 pm

I can't help but laugh...

Z-man's logs wrote:[0] Players from IP 24.5.239.53 are banned for 600000 minutes. Reason: You're a certified asshole.
[0] Players from IP 24.7.31.49 are banned for 600000 minutes. Reason: You're a certified asshole.

wrtlprnft · Post by **wrtlprnft** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:31 pm

Note that there's a bandwidth usage difference between a spectator and someone who's actually playing.

An actual player needs to get updated on everything that's happening AND needs to send his/her own moves to the server AND these moves have to be sent to all other clients. This results in O(n²) bandwidth usage where n is the number of active players.

A spectator needs to get updated on everything that's happening. That's it. In a game with a fixed number of players and n spectators this results in O(n) bandwidth usage. Quite a difference.

In addition to that spectators don't eat CPU power on the clients (and practically no bandwidth), which is another cause of “lag”.
Especially z-man's server has way more bandwidth than what's needed for regular gameplay, spectators don't hurt there.

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:42 pm

Please take a look at the # of spectators. There were 3 in the 1st match, 8 in the 2nd, 7 in the 3rd, & 5 in the 4th.

Score Logs (TuI vs SP)

1st Match

Code: Select all

Overall Winner: Team blue with 100 points.
Final Scores:
Team:                  Score:
Team blue              100
Team gold              48
Player:         Alive: Score: Ping: Member of Team: 
TµÎ¬ßåll§å¢k    No     14     203   Team blue       
TuI~LacrYmosa   Yes    14     84    Team blue       
~*SP*~PsYkO     No     12     139   Team gold       
~tui~ 3         Yes    10     161   Team blue       
TuI 2i          No     8      145   Team blue       
~*SP*~Sasha     No     8      75    Team gold       
~*SP*~ teen     Yes    8      201   Team gold       
TuI-Brainherpes Yes    6      116   Team blue       
~*SP*~10000     No     4      69    Team gold       
TUI purple KUSH No     4      194   Team blue       
Tui ~ X ~       No     2      170   Team blue       
~*SP*~ Ady-Luci Yes    2      137   Team gold       
~*SP*~oO.k3nNy  No     2      64    Team gold       
~>TµÌ<~¦$må¢K¦~ No     2      116   Team blue       
~*SP*~ vip3r    No     2      67    Team gold       
~*PsYkO*~       No     0      247   Team gold       
V < M3          No     0      82    
Z-Man           No     0      87    
¦×¦ $µbzero     No     0      38    
Time: 2007/02/04 22:25:40

2nd Match

Code: Select all

Overall Winner: Team blue with 100 points.
Final Scores:
Team:                  Score:
Team blue              100
Team gold              72
Player:         Alive: Score: Ping: Member of Team: 
~*SP*~Sasha     No     14     77    Team gold       
Tui ~ X ~       Yes    12     174   Team blue       
TµÎ¬ßåll§å¢k    Yes    12     198   Team blue       
TuI 2i          No     12     143   Team blue       
TuI~LacrYmosa   No     10     86    Team blue       
~*SP*~ Ady-Luci No     8      146   Team gold       
~*SP*~PsYkO     No     8      80    Team gold       
~*PsYkO*~       No     6      283   Team gold       
~*SP*~ShItHeAd  Yes    6      139   Team gold       
TuI-Brainherpes Yes    6      107   Team blue       
~*PsYkO*~2      Yes    4      202   Team gold       
~*SP*~ pSyK0    No     4      60    Team gold       
~>TµÌ<~¦$må¢K¦~ No     4      125   Team blue       
TUI purple KUSH Yes    2      211   Team blue       
~tui~ 3         Yes    2      173   Team blue       
~*SP*~Speed     No     2      76    Team gold       
V < M3          No     0      82    
Z-Man           No     0      89    
Lighting(LG)    No     0      276   
SnE4K!          No     0      176   
¦×¦ Sticky      No     0      67    
Hyphy Leopard   No     0      208   
¦×¦ FoFo        No     0      83    
>|TC{~ PhAnToM  No     0      70    
Time: 2007/02/04 22:38:53

3rd Match

Code: Select all

Overall Winner: Team gold with 100 points.
Final Scores:
Team:                  Score:
Team gold              100
Team blue              56
Player:         Alive: Score: Ping: Member of Team: 
~tui~ 3         Yes    16     163   Team blue       
~*PsYkO*~       Yes    10     196   Team gold       
~*SP*~Sasha     No     10     70    Team gold       
~*SP*~Speed     Yes    10     75    Team gold       
~*SP*~PsYkO     Yes    10     69    Team gold       
TuI-Brainherpes No     8      150   Team blue       
~*SP*~ShItHeAd  No     8      149   Team gold       
Tui ~ X ~       No     6      187   Team blue       
~*SP*~ Ady-Luci No     6      131   Team gold       
TuI~1           No     6      87    Team blue       
~>TµÌ<~¦$må¢K¦~ No     4      116   Team blue       
~*SP*~ pSyK0    No     4      61    Team gold       
TµÎ¬ßåll§å¢k    Yes    4      215   Team blue       
TuI 2i          No     2      136   Team blue       
~*SP*~ Oblivion No     2      268   Team gold       
TUI purple KUSH No     0      207   Team blue       
V < M3          No     0      77    
Z-Man           No     0      89    
¦×¦ FoFo        No     0      68    
SnE4K!          No     0      173   
¦×¦ Sticky      No     0      67    
Hyphy Leopard   No     0      202   
{$C}Sorex       No     0      106   
Time: 2007/02/04 22:51:05

4th Match

Code: Select all

Overall Winner: Team blue with 102 points.
Final Scores:
Team:                  Score:
Team blue              102
Team gold              68
Player:         Alive: Score: Ping: Member of Team: 
TuI~Refizul     No     16     84    Team blue       
~*SP*~PsYkO     No     14     62    Team gold       
~*SP*~ PsYk0    No     10     63    Team gold       
TµÎ¬ßåll§å¢k    Yes    10     206   Team blue       
TuI 2i          Yes    10     145   Team blue       
~*SP*~ Lag-Lagy Yes    10     137   Team gold       
TUI purple KUSH Yes    8      199   Team blue       
~*PsYkO*~       No     8      203   Team gold       
TuI-Brainherpes No     6      118   Team blue       
Tui ~ X ~       No     4      176   Team blue       
~tui~ 3         Yes    4      161   Team blue       
~>TµÌ<~¦$må¢K¦~ Yes    4      112   Team blue       
~*SP*~ShItHeAd  No     2      141   Team gold       
~*SP*~ Oblivion No     2      267   Team gold       
~*SP*~Sasha     Yes    2      81    Team gold       
mashedZpotato   No     0      76    Team gold       
¦×¦ Sticky      No     0      65    
Z-Man           No     0      85    
¦×¦ FoFo        No     0      78    
Hyphy Leopard   No     0      200   
~*SP*~D3M0N     No     0      68    
Time: 2007/02/04 23:01:36

~*PsYkO*~ · Post by **~*PsYkO*~** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:16 am

it's funny cuz there were so many psykos yet the real one didnt even play

HellBlade · Post by **HellBlade** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:10 am

haha it's also funny cause I was the original one there and everyone believed that I was you, even the spers haha. BTW is there a way to get FPS up cause I always play with about around 15 fps on average, and I have no other applications running and I don't have sparks or explosions on.

Ricochet · Post by **Ricochet** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:34 pm

sure, buy a better graphics card or some more RAM

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:16 pm

I doubt the amount of memory is the bottleneck. I'd look whether a software renderer is used and try to fix that if necessary (install proper drivers from your GPU's manufacterer's site), and then consider getting hardware that's actually faster.