2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

[Titanoboa]

Oh, I thought that was a straight-forward, simple way of saying that the captain might end up with someone they can't work with, and that FFA will suck for everyone on that team. And there's nothing they can do about it.

Usually these grudges are between experienced players who wouldn't get picked last. And thankfully, I don't think there are too many of them nowadays. I'm not on the grid often enough to notice, though.

[Monkey]

say Captain A and Player X can't get along at all. If on the same team, it'd become a horrible experience for the two of them, as well as the other poor sobs on that team.

I think that as tak and jericho have shown, it's perfectly possible for people that don't get along to work together in a tournament such as the FFA, for the benefit of the team as a whole.

Any captain would prefer – and do their job better with – a team that they picked themselves.

For me, one of the main points of the FFA is to get people playing with people that they would not normally play with. It shouldn't be about captains having their preferred team.

However, I'm sure that I will be in the minority (as usual) as most people won't want randomisation in selecting players for teams.

[sinewav]

However, I'm sure that I will be in the minority (as usual) as most people won't want randomisation in selecting players for teams.

C'mon man, relax. Don't inherit the ID persecution complex. Clearly there is a good debate about this and it is not in any way decided which is best. I haven't even voted in the poll because I can't decide.

Here is another thing to think about; if a team does well or loses easily, do all the members blame randomization? If captain's pick, to they blame the captain? Maybe neither. The point is, which method increases the chance players will return to the FFA? Which one creates a stronger sense of accomplishment? (Maybe neither.) Which method not only creates new relationships but strengthens existing ones?

These are the things I think about.

[bilbo baggins]

the way i see it, even if a captain picks one of his clanmates/friends for his first pick, A:there will always be other players better than them and B: the liklihood after a whole round of picking that this captain will get a chance to pick another player of preference is fairly low and each round of picking will mean a captain must compromise and pick people he wouldnt normally pick, all in all resulting (imo) more balenced and competative teams, i didnt see the final but the games i played in were a lot more close than many ladle washouts that we have.

[delinquent]

So far, the overwhelming majority lean towards the existing proxy, choice based distribution.

[Monkey]

Don't inherit the ID persecution complex

It's a conspiracy, you're all in it together! No, actually we (ID) have been fairly lucky in the last few Ladles in terms of opponents, so we can't complain.

So far, the overwhelming majority lean towards the existing proxy, choice based distribution.

See!

Well, I've accepted that captains will be choosing their teams, which doesn't bother me that much actually. What does bother me, however, is that we don't really seem to be attracting enough new or newish players to the tournament. From what I remember, the tournament wasn't advertised on any game servers at all (someone correct me if I'm wrong please). We really need to change that for future FFAs.

[bilbo baggins]

Well, I've accepted that captains will be choosing their teams, which doesn't bother me that much actually. What does bother me, however, is that we don't really seem to be attracting enough new or newish players to the tournament. From what I remember, the tournament wasn't advertised on any game servers at all (someone correct me if I'm wrong please). We really need to change that for future FFAs.

the FFA is designed to bring new players to fortress, from what i've seen from the past 2 FFA's is 2 relatively unestablished players come to fort (nanu, and sain), so imo we should really advertise this to the other game modes.

[delinquent]

The advertising is probably last on the list of things needing discussion tbh, there's very little point in advertising a tournament that has no functionable organisation. Once things are in motion, we can start looking at partnering with server owners to broaden our user base.

Also, I'm considering raising the limit on the number of players. If we hit 72 within a relatively short space of time, I'll think about raising it to 96.

[Gazelle]

We barely got 50, what makes you think we could get 72, or 96 for that matter loL!

[orion]

We barely got 50, what makes you think we could get 72, or 96 for that matter loL!

$1000 for winner team

[delinquent]

Assuming people see here that we are at least attempting to organise it more smoothly, we may engender more interest. If we had 50 odd players sign up with no advertising, I think we stand a decent chance of securing more participation.

[Gazelle]

Understandable but... We get around 10 teams per ladle, thats approximately the amount of people that genuinely enjoy a competitive fortress scene... With a randomization tournament that would have a difficult time competing with per say a ladle like atmosphere, it would have a hard time reaching these numbers...

In my opinion I think it may be best lowering the player expectancy...

10 x 6 = 60 players...

It is highly unlikely to get much more than that.. There are only about 60-70 players that even play fort.

[delinquent]

You have a point.
I won't be lowering the limit though, we'll see how it goes. Also, the intention was to attract players from other areas and from outside the game, so I think we stand a fair chance.

[Venijn]

If I remember correctly, in the first FFA, Captains were limited to picking 2 players from the same clan and no more.

Something to consider.

Also, in terms of organisation, i wouldn't consider any limit at all until the competition structure has been set.

I would personally model the tournament on the first one, which everyone seemed to enjoy, there's little point in changing the rules based on little, that's what happened a bit with FFA2 (although i am grateful and enjoyed it.)

Your limits also seem a bit far-fetched. I wouldn't expect much more success than with other tournaments, other players who don't play fort don't play it for a reason. Yes, i understand the desire to get more players into fort (Phoenix anyone?) but I have my doubts that a competition that people want to win is the correct forum for it.

[delinquent]

All good points. To be honest, I'm keeping the original structure intact as much as I can, but the organisational side (the IRC channel, bots, stuffs like that) I'm remodeling a little.

I'm not so sure, though, about the vector for drawing people in. If we encourage captains to include one or two newcomers into their teams, it may allow for the attraction to fortress without compromising a teams chances of winning (read: Everyone is at the same disadvantage). That all depends on the willingness of people to co-operate with picking lesser experienced players, which is kind of difficult to predict without more activity from players in this thread.

After some thought, I'm also going to remove the player limits entirely.
Also, what should I script the IRC bot in? I've not written one before.