"gay" - split from "for tesafilm"

[Phytotron]

The truly interesting and ironic thing about this phrasing that Christian morality is "highly evolved" is that morality and a moral sense didn't begin with Christianity. They didn't even begin with religion. In fact, most likely, the moral sense (which precedes moral code) didn't even begin with humans. Humans and other (usually social) animals have indeed evolved a moral sense—but biologically, not through religion. "Do unto others" is a perfect starting point as behavioral solution for a social species in which individuals must get along with one another. Highly evolved, indeed.

Morality wasn't invented or revealed. It is the socio-culturally codified product of an inherent moral sense. It's no wonder, then, that it shows up in religious moral doctrine, and that so many religious moral codes are really, at base, very similar.

[For further reading, see: Michael Shermer, E.O. Wilson, Steven Pinker, Richard Dawkins, et al.]


You're partly right that religion in itself isn't necessarily the "root of all evil." As I've long said, were all religious thought to disappear tomorrow, with no memory of it to survive, most views, opinions, beliefs, and ideologies would still remain.

But all humans have the evolved capacity to be friendly or fierce, cooperative or competitive, altruistic or selfish, tolerant or intolerant. And religious doctrine, and all that goes along with it (which may summarily be referred to as brainwashing), can and does strongly influence people in one direction or another. I think that's quite evident, even from this thread. Some of you have expressed that your religion has shaped your views towards the GLBT community, and, not to be too presumptuous, but probably has influenced some actions on your part toward them as well.


As for your pop quitting drinking, there is a fantastic organisation called Rational Recovery which is far superior to AA or any other similar thing, and has a greater documented success rate as well. No god required.

Finally remember this: Faith is defined as the strong belief in something in spite of, sometimes even because of, a lack of evidence or rationality.


Edit: added in an author for reference.

[Revan]

So is it a requirement of the SP clan that you have to be a freaking insane, right-wing Christian fundie like SD to be a member? Evil bastards, all of you.

Dude I'm sick of <what you're saying>. Maybe you can say that in <a vacation zone>!

bits in <> replaced by me - tank

[Revan]

The truly interesting and ironic thing about this phrasing that Christian morality is "highly evolved" is that morality and a moral sense didn't begin with Christianity. They didn't even begin with religion. In fact, most likely, the moral sense (which precedes moral code) didn't even begin with humans. Humans and other (usually social) animals have indeed evolved a moral sense—but biologically, not through religion. "Do unto others" is a perfect starting point as behavioral solution for a social species in which individuals must get along with one another. Highly evolved, indeed.

Morality wasn't invented or revealed. It is the socio-culturally codified product of an inherent moral sense. It's no wonder, then, that it shows up in religious moral doctrine, and that so many religious moral codes are really, at base, very similar.

[For further reading, see: E.O. Wilson, Steven Pinker, Richard Dawkins, et al.]


You're partly right that religion in itself isn't necessarily the "root of all evil." As I've long said, were all religious thought to disappear tomorrow, with no memory of it to survive, most views, opinions, beliefs, and ideologies would still remain.

But all humans have the evolved capacity to be friendly or fierce, cooperative or competitive, altruistic or selfish, tolerant or intolerant. And religious doctrine, and all that goes along with it (which may summarily be referred to as brainwashing), can and does strongly influence people in one direction or another. I think that's quite evident, even from this thread. Some of you have expressed that your religion has shaped your views towards the GLBT community, and, not to be too presumptuous, but probably has influenced some actions on your part toward them as well.


As for your pop quitting drinking, there is a fantastic organisation called Rational Recovery which is far superior to AA or any other similar thing, and has a greater documented success rate as well. No god required.

Finally remember this: Faith is defined as the strong belief in something in spite of, sometimes even because of, a lack of evidence or rationality.

And the interesting thing is that you don't know what you're talking about.

For one thing, Christians are not based on RELIGION. We are based on GOD.

Another thing evolution is a load of bullshit. Darwin himself said on his DEATHBED that he was sorry for making it up and wished he never had degraded christianity.

Another thing, one of the only reason people refuse to beleive Christianity is because they don't want to face the truth. A sign of immaturity.

Another thing, Hinduism is a load of it. I'm sick of it and Christianity has NO time period. As long as God has been around Christianity has been around. And for your information GOD HAS BEEN AROUND FOREVER!

Fonkay, church and law being separate is another evasion of Christ. Just more people trying not to beleive the soul truth.

Ollioscope your attitude has pissed me off. I don't care how popular you are here but you <need to sort out what you're saying>.

Some stupi orginization that helps people? Well..for one thing God is not required for satisfaction on earth but in Heaven. And it you are stupid Heaven is a whole lot better than earth. No sins everything is perfect. Your goin by your own stupid <thoughts> that people have drilled in your head. I'm goin by the bible which is he most solid source of anything that can ever be stated!

<> deal again - tank

[Z-Man]

Another thing, Hinduism is a load of it. I'm sick of it and Christianity has NO time period. As long as God has been around Christianity has been around. And for your information GOD HAS BEEN AROUND FOREVER!

There, there. Hinduism is not the only religion with reincarnation. I was talking about Budhism. But I'd prefer Hinduism over Chrisianity any time, at least they got the age of the universe and Earth approximately right. What is it that you believe? Five thousand years? Crap! The longest timeframe Hindus know is some Billion years.
And both Budhism and Hinduism have been around longer than Christianity, which makes them more right.

The good thing about scientific facts, by the way, is that they stay facs even if their inventor/discoverer denies them.

[Tank Program]

I remind everyone, again, that the forums are not primarily for voicing opinions. You, Raven, of all people should realize that it's not up to you to judge.

[iceman]

omg ....

[Tank Program]

I remind everyone, again, that the forums are not primarily for voicing opinions.

I just realized this doesn't stand on it's own. I rephrase to "voicing opinions about other people."

[Lucifer]

Darwin denying evolution and making a deathbed conversion goes on the same pile that contains "humans were originally vegetarians".

Guess what it's a pile of?

[Revan]

Sorry Tank, but it's become personal.

z-man your religion is completely false in the sense of I've never seen a horse come up to me and say 'psst! Hey Phil it's your neighbor Bill! Remember me? I died last year!'

Tank, it's 'Revan' not 'Raven'

[Tank Program]

Sorry Tank, but it's become personal.

Well, not here.

Tank, it's 'Revan' not 'Raven'

Sorry.

[goferman]

does this really belong in the general topic. It really has nothing to do with tron anymore and would probably fit better in the really general section.

[Z-Man]

z-man your religion is completely false in the sense of I've never seen a horse come up to me and say 'psst! Hey Phil it's your neighbor Bill! Remember me? I died last year!'

Yes, that is because you can't remember your past lives. Memory is mortal, it's finite. And horses can't speak What you know as "soul" does not exist. What you call "self" does not exist, it is just an illusion of your mind. What does exist in Budhism is some sort of universal flow of consciousness. It flows through our bodies, and leaves when we die, to enter a new body. You learn to feel the flow with certain advanced meditation techniques.

And it's not really my Religion. Just wanted to point that out so there is no clamouring about deceit later. But it does come close.

Guess what it's a pile of?

The pile of statements that, while the remote possibility exists that they may be true, are completely irrelevant to the discussion?

On topic: when someone calls my server "gay" while I'm online, I say "why, thanks!".

[Phytotron]

So Revan has taken to raving, vitriolic proselytizing. Oh boy, what fun. At least SD pretends to be all nice and innocent about it. Revan is simply mad (and I do mean that in both senses of the word).

The only comment I'm going to bother responding to is the one about Darwin. Pay attention, boys and girls. It's a simple thing, but thick-headed creationists seem to have a hard time with it.

The Lady Hope story is complete and utter fabrication. She was not even present at Darwin's death. Only Darwin's family was present, and his wife vehemently denied he ever "recanted."

Even the Answers In Genesis website admits this. I'm sure you're familiar with them and their founder, Ken Ham, a bona fide Christian creationist. See here: Arguments we think creationists should NOT use. It's the first one in the list.

And as they point out, even if we were to stipulate that Darwin did recant, it's completely irrelevant. Darwin lived 150 years ago. Do you think evolutionary biology has remained stagnant since then? Quite the contrary. Darwin is irrelevant to modern evolutionary biology much the same way that Newton is irrelevant to modern physics.


Oh, actually, I do want to respond to one other amusing thing. Talking horses, eh? Don't I recall there being a talking donkey in the Bible?

[goferman]

obviously this is becoming a creationism vs. darwinism battle so i will add my own simple teenage two bits to the mix.

1.There is nothing wrong with creationism or specific design for that matter but it cannot be proven scientifically.

2. The church has been wrong countless times in the past.
- The sylabus of errors is everything that the church refused to admit for many years and finally decided that without a doubt they screwed up and were wrong. (They claimed the earth was flat at least for 100 years after it was confirmed that it was indeed round) not an exact fact but not too far off the money

[Revan]

Wellll....I say I'm sick of this forum because of Osc...Soooo...I'm not going to reply too much after this. Yes cheer you in your little airconditioned room...There's no air-conditioning in hell just to let you know..

I say no-one here knows what faith is. You have faith in your religion even though it can't completely be proven. Neither can Christianity. That's why you can't be a Thomas and not beleive until you see!
Osc, read the bible. If you don't like it, then ignore it. But remember one thing. God loves you and even if you don't beleive in him he is there.

/me leaves