Is Elon still as evil after today?

[kyle]

The parts where they graffitied up the Capitol, maybe. But also keep in mind they were disrupting a legitimate democratic process based on a lie propagated by your current President... so that knocks their justification down a peg.
Did they even do graffiti?
Anyway, honest question: Do you want to be taken seriously? Because again, you equate things that are simply not on the same level.

How does bashing up policemen, hunting politicians and smearing shit inside parliamentary rooms equal damage of property and graffiti protest? One from your camp just shot 4 people and killed 2 so maybe that should give you pause if the comparison is appropriate at all and who you are considering terrorist.

The things you all fail to realize, is I don't believe either were right, I don't think destruction or property, government or not is right. Yes, I voted for Trump, but what I have not said is that I voted for the Democrats for the senate and house seats that I could vote for, in hopes to balance out some of the power. I'm not tied to one party, never was, and never will be. You all seem to be falling for the anti anything associated with the other party, which is just plain crazy.

I'm sure we could argue for days on the ICE protests vs jan 6 protests, similarities and differences, Yes, I realise you don't agree that voting was rigged in 2020, I'm not taking a side either way, because it was just way different, because of covid and stuff (I still cast my vote, which was not for Trump or Biden in person, but there were many mail in ballets in states). But back to my point, they both destroyed property, because they believed the government was doing something wrong, one for democracy, and one for humanitarian.

I don't like all of Trumps actions, but I understand them, he likes to create a chaotic world, to artfully craft better deal. The high tariffs, were used to negotiate, they never were meant to last. China depends on exporting to us so much, that they were having a lot of issues over there, when they were high, that's why a temporary deal went in place, most businesses saw through it and waited on moving goods, so the inflation the fed thinks will hit us from us, won't hit.

Is it really wrong for me to want, a secure border, but better legal immigration policies, a balanced budget, clean energy, and less people medicated? These are the same things that Elon wants, this is why he started the feud with Trump, he wants to make it clear that what he wants, is not everything Trump wants, because too many people think they have some group think that they are living in the same hive mind, when they are not. The left simply took the non existing border policies way too far out of hand, and kept drugging our kids, and that was too far for Elon to support them and that's why he turned to endorse Trump, it was not because of Trumps radical spending or crazy high tariffs.

kyle, you still haven't noticed that your sources of "information" come from x.com/twitter/whatever and grok? They are biased because they are owned by Musk. I don't understand how you can't grasp this concept. You really need to broaden your horizons.

yep, it's true, I use X all the time, come join spread the other sides, there is plenty of it on my feed, I literally block/mute nobody, and like to hear all sides of the story, and I'll even engage with people of other beliefs to learn more, just as I do here. I will look at other media, but I don't have trust in a lot of it, they continue to get stuff way wrong, they write on their agenda, where on X you can actually hear what they people see. and Grok is not immune, it can be heavily biased by the media.

Yet again, you all said Elon was drugged, because of what the media said, because of the way people manipulated his movements, but he posted his Drug tests, Hair and urine samples were he passed, both form June 11th.

kyle, if you ever get the chance in your lifetime, I strongly suggest you visit some other countries and see what is really going on in the World.

I hope to travel a lot in 3 to 4 years, right now my travels are mainly North America. What countries would you recommend, and I only know English, but may try learning some other languages closer to that time?

Finally one last things on the current conflicts or the world. I know the world is in a big mess right now, the reason is always money, and I think that the US high interest rates is what makes borrowing challenging for many, around the world, and that in turn leads to many conflicts and wars around the world. would any of you agree or disagree with that being a big cause of the recent wars?

[Z-Man]

The parts where they graffitied up the Capitol, maybe. But also keep in mind they were disrupting a legitimate democratic process based on a lie propagated by your current President... so that knocks their justification down a peg.
Did they even do graffiti?
Anyway, honest question: Do you want to be taken seriously? Because again, you equate things that are simply not on the same level.

How does bashing up policemen, hunting politicians and smearing shit inside parliamentary rooms equal damage of property and graffiti protest? One from your camp just shot 4 people and killed 2 so maybe that should give you pause if the comparison is appropriate at all and who you are considering terrorist.

The things you all fail to realize, is I don't believe either were right, I don't think destruction or property, government or not is right.

Then why exactly did you ask me whether Jan 06 was OK (to me, I presume) when I specifically had restricted my OK to a bit of color on walls, and Jan 06 is not even on the same continent? The Jan 06 protesters ran through police, killed one, ransacked the parliament, some of them would probably have killed Pence given the chance.

You all seem to be falling for the anti anything associated with the other party, which is just plain crazy.

In its current state, the Republican Party is internally purely Authoritarian. Trump rules, if you do not agree with Trump, if you vote against any of the bills the administration proposes or someone proposed for an office, look forward to death threats from the rabid base and no chance to win your next primaries. This is new! It didn't use to be this way. I consider fundamental opposition against that shape natural, regardless of concrete political issues.

Yes, I realise you don't agree that voting was rigged in 2020

Right, normally, as sinewav pointed out, we are a diverse group with different opinions, but in this point I'm confident to speak for all of us: The heck we don't agree. Well, there was that rigging attempt, Trump demanding missing votes for him to be found in Georgia. Jan 06 attackers did not fight for Democracy, they fought for a lie.

After that and Jan 06, everyone assumed Trump would be done for. And with a sane and working internal democratic structure in the Republican Party, he would have been. But he and his remaining supporters still managed to bully him back into position.

I don't like all of Trumps actions, but I understand them, he likes to create a chaotic world, to artfully craft better deal. The high tariffs, were used to negotiate, they never were meant to last.

So, what is that better deal with China? You know, that flip-flopping makes Trump, and the USA by extension, look weak and unreliable in the eyes of pretty much everyone? You know they call him TACO, right?

Is it really wrong for me to want, a secure border, but better legal immigration policies, a balanced budget, clean energy, and less people medicated?

Well, 'less people medicated' I would object to, because would not 'healthy people' be the better goal? Healthy, while not broke from exuberant medical cost? If that involves swallowing fewer pills, all the better, but for type 1 diabetes, there simply is no current alternative to insulin injections, to name just one thing. And sure, you can stop vaccinating children, we managed to get by without that just fine, we just had to make twice as many of them so enough would survive. Heh, maybe I'm reading too much into it
"a secure border, but better legal immigration policies," the way you say that here, sure, no fundamental objections. The reasons FOR wanting that you brought up, well, they were xenophobic. The big bad foreigner that wants to abduct your dog and eat your daughter, that kind of thing.
Balanced budget and clean energy: 100% agree, definitely not wrong. Only... if those were priorities, you voted for the wrong guy, and Musked backed the wrong guy. Unless you agree with Trump that coal is wonderful and clean, that is. And of course, Trump PROMISED sane spending. Who whould have thought?

(Here is also where I disagree with sinewav from way earlier, there is a soft fuzzy limit over which state debt becomes a problem, because you have to cover for the interest of that debt in the budget. You don't have to pay it back though, letting inflation effectively shrink it away is good enough.)

Yet again, you all said Elon was drugged, because of what the media said, because of the way people manipulated his movements, but he posted his Drug tests, Hair and urine samples were he passed, both form June 11th.

Look, I am inclined to believe the test is genuine, but don't you see a problem there? Musk himself posts an image on his own platform, that has his name on it and a column with lots of 'negative'? With no evidence that the samples were indeed taken from him and processed independently of his influence? And that the image is not manipulated?
Story time. What feels like a decade ago, but probably was two, there was a football coach named Christoph Daum. People said he was using cocaine. So, he did the right thing to clear his name: Provide a hair sample (best long-term evidence) to an independent lab, have them publish the results. That is how you establish trust, publish your intent before you know the result and make the process transparent.
Only problem, the test came back positive, so he then was a cocaine user, a liar, and also a very big idiot

I only know English, but may try learning some other languages closer to that time?

You'll get by with that in most of Europe. Just, when people don't understand you at first, go slower, not louder

Finally one last things on the current conflicts or the world. I know the world is in a big mess right now, the reason is always money, and I think that the US high interest rates is what makes borrowing challenging for many, around the world, and that in turn leads to many conflicts and wars around the world. would any of you agree or disagree with that being a big cause of the recent wars?

Interesting thought, but no, I don't think so. The Dollar is important, but not that important, if you have a non-US project, you don't borrow Dollar, you borrow your local currency. And the current two news cycle dominating conflicts don't look economically driven at all.

[Monkey]

Is it really wrong for me to want, a secure border, but better legal immigration policies, a balanced budget, clean energy, and less people medicated? These are the same things that Elon wants

He has so much money he could have done good with but he hasn't. Don't forget he treats his employees like shit. He's playing the public lip service. Are you the same as Elon? Would you do the same as Elon has done, if you had his money?

The left simply took the non existing border policies way too far out of hand, and kept drugging our kids, and that was too far for Elon to support them and that's why he turned to endorse Trump, it was not because of Trumps radical spending or crazy high tariffs.

Absolute BS. Elon would never support the lefties because he's a greedy, selfish, narcissistic, rich c**t. He's right wing all the way, don't kid yourself. Also, the left drugging kids? How are the left drugging kids?

kyle, if you ever get the chance in your lifetime, I strongly suggest you visit some other countries and see what is really going on in the World.

I hope to travel a lot in 3 to 4 years, right now my travels are mainly North America. What countries would you recommend, and I only know English, but may try learning some other languages closer to that time?

I would recommend a trip to Europe as your first time out of America. Don't worry too much about not speaking other languages as most (but not all) countries/areas in Europe learn English at school (as you can tell on these forums). You're only going on holiday, not living there, so it's not a massive issue at all. You can learn some important words beforehand if you want to. Also, put/use a translator on your phone just in case.

Something that you need to know about Europe is that every country is very different to the next. US states have much more in common with each other than European countries do with each other. A lot of Americans don't realise this and think of Europe as one big country.

I wouldn't go to the usual tourist traps because they aren't very real World and you won't learn much about anything important from them, unless you are massively into history/architecture, at least that is my opinion. Do your research on the internet well before you go to each destination or preferably even well before you leave the US.

I recommend sticking to cities and larger towns for several reasons, including better public transport, more multiculturalism and there will be more English language speakers there too.

I would visit as many different countries here as possible (as is sensible in one trip). I wouldn't do it in winter as our weather can be shit during that period and you will have less of a fun time. Somewhere in the period from May to September is ideal.

if you have any more questions or want some specific places to go, just say so.

Finally one last things on the current conflicts or the world. I know the world is in a big mess right now, the reason is always money, and I think that the US high interest rates is what makes borrowing challenging for many, around the world, and that in turn leads to many conflicts and wars around the world. would any of you agree or disagree with that being a big cause of the recent wars?

I'd put religion up there too, along with money and power. One thing I will say though is that you can't tar everyone with the same brush; there are good people from all countries, they just seem to get shat on by the bad ones in those countries. The bad ones also shit on people from other countries too. That's a universal rule for the whole World, in my opinion.

[sinewav]

(Here is also where I disagree with sinewav from way earlier, there is a soft fuzzy limit over which state debt becomes a problem, because you have to cover for the interest of that debt in the budget. You don't have to pay it back though, letting inflation effectively shrink it away is good enough.)

True, true. But I really feel like debt is just accounting and doesn't relate to quality of life. Sometimes when I get scared by big numbers I look at this list and remind myself that everything is fine.

[Lucifer]

https://youtu.be/9euKCrTyMEc?si=CF-CSQ_egDV8sJKZ

This is the best discussion of what's at the root of our problems right now

[kyle]

https://youtu.be/9euKCrTyMEc?si=CF-CSQ_egDV8sJKZ

This is the best discussion of what's at the root of our problems right now

Not sure if it's the best discussion, but definitely one of the issues. another one, is expectations and how the have evolved over the years, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7H2QIswV7g

You see, you all pinned me basically as a far right extremist when I said I voted Trump, you did the same to Elon when he said he was backing Trump. Elon and I voted trump to cut spending, not increase it, like the BBB is going to do. They laced the Tax cuts with extra spending to support the oil industry, and to support small businesses. and phasing out the EV tax credits. Elon has been on the record may times, saying we don't need to have EV tax credits, as a business should not exist to scrape money from the government. The government should not decide winners and losers, it should strictly help lead innovation, where needed. Yet Trump comes out with an attack about Elon, saying he's just mad the EV tax credits are ending, that's a complete lie, but you'll believe it, because that supports your Elon is a bad greedy billionaire theory, but I don't because I've listened to countless interviews with Elon, read every post he made on X for the last 10 years or so. So I see a completely different person that you guy see. Is mine more factually accurate I'd like to think it is, as it's the information he has been saying all along, that keeps getting supported. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NKW_qbwX9oc

[Monkey]

you all pinned me basically as a far right extremist when I said I voted Trump, you did the same to Elon when he said he was backing Trump

Elon...yes. You...no. I pinned you as someone who is very naive, bordering on brainwashed.

I've listened to countless interviews with Elon, read every post he made on X for the last 10 years or so. So I see a completely different person that you guy see. Is mine more factually accurate I'd like to think it is

Very naive, bordering on brainwashed.

[Word]

It's not just how you voted kyle, it’s why. And now you're basically using the Nuremberg defense like Musk ordered you to vote Trump to prove your loyalty while you made most of musk's and trump's views your own without questioning them. Instead of saying "i'm xenophobic so i vote for authoritarianism and against democracy" you can always say "i voted for what elon told me to" as if you had no moral compass of your own. You do that because somewhere you probably know what you're doing is wrong but it's convenient enough to abdicate your social responsibility while maintaining the impression you fight for a just cause. And so, you're his drone because it's easy to use ELON as a proxy for moral rot. We don't need to pin you anywhere when you do that already by continuing to act like ELON and twitter are the only sources of truth and altruism there are. You're stuck in a parasocial relationship that is neither good for you nor society, and therefore are in dire need of an intervention. The guy is selling EVs and the BBB makes them less affordable so he'll make less money. Why do you have to build a conspiracy around this?

The government should not decide winners and losers, it should strictly help lead innovation, where needed

Immigration directly leads to innovation, but you don't want that

[sinewav]

...you'll believe it, because that supports your Elon is a bad greedy billionaire theory...

My mind was made up about Musk before he ever showed support for Trump. I didn't really have an opinion about him when he was just the Tesla / SpaceX guy. I remember in 2018 some coworkers were criticizing him and I said "he's just some investor guy, he doesn't actually do anything so I don't care about him." But when he started showing interest in Twitter and being more vocal about his views then I was like "oh, this guy is actually a piece of shit and kind of a moron too." He's a stupid person's idea of a smart person, same as Trump.

[kyle]

I bet none of you actually watched the videos I posted. The point I was trying to make is, you've already decided billionaires have an expectation of being bad people, because a lot of them are, look at Bill Gates, Mark Zukerberg.

I did not vote for Trump because Elon told me to, I voted for Trump because the Biden administration was practically handing out the American dream to illegal immigrants, many with free luxury housing, food an shelter, and did not have to work. This was drawing away a lot of money from the working people causing major inflation, that kept rates super high practically halting the economy. I can't have another 4 years with the Boarder Czar, waltzing anyone in, Yes I agree there are people in need of asylum, but the policies put in place were giving people a first class hotel while many Americans were sleeping on the streets. The intensive structure around asylum was to come to America. I could not stand that, as I want to be able to save Money aggressively invest it wisely and actually retire early, or at least be financially free. I don't know anyone who wants to be force to work their entire life, with the communist aspects that the Biden administration wanted to do by Taxing unrealized gains, on the billionaires, would have had massive effects on all retirement accounts. the billionaires would have to sell stock to cover the cost of unrealized gains, tanking the stock market, and you retirement accounts, to only place a very small dent on the actual deficient. Which leads me to Trump supporting Doge and less spending, obviously that's a lie with the OBBB, that i fell for, But I still think about what Kamala would have continued, and I don't want that.

I want easier ways for legal immigration, I knew voting for Trump I would not get that, but it does sound like he is backing away a bit on the ICE crackdowns. I knew voting for Trump would be the end of the green energy incentives, I did not expect them the add more incentives on the oil and gas industries though. We were at a point where the market was starting to shift naturally, I did not think we needed the incentives anymore.

Anyway because I do like the views from Elon most of the time, yes there are some I disagree with too, You just assume I'm this stupid person, that been brainwashed.

The guy is selling EVs and the BBB makes them less affordable so he'll make less money. Why do you have to build a conspiracy around this?

Trump did not me,
Tweet from 2013 from Elon https://x.com/elonmusk/status/338108608430632960
2022 same thing: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1528124417716457474
and he has been saying it more recently too

[Lucifer]

the Biden administration was practically handing out the American dream to illegal immigrants, many with free luxury housing, food an shelter, and did not have to work.

These are lies. Please stop lying.

I pegged you as a far right extremist because you are a far right extremist. Again, I can't say this enough, I live 2 hours from the Mexican border. Except for those 4 years in Seattle and a couple of years in Kansas, this is the farthest from the border I've ever lived.

There is no invasion. If there were, I'd see it. I don't think you should listen to a new Yorker tell you there is. Those Haitians weren't eating the dogs, they were the workforce that revitalized that town.

And you voted for the guy who said they're eating the dogs. You are an extremist.

[sinewav]

I bet none of you actually watched the videos I posted.

I have. The video you posted in the AI thread about Musk's views (which is now missing) was very much a scripted PR piece and only reinforced my view that's he's kind of a dumbass. Of course I have a bias, but not the one you think. I consume a lot of intellectually heavy content and Musk can't even compare to futurists such as Fukuyama and Kurzweil so it's hard to take him seriously. Also, I know you think this video you posted makes Musk look noble but to me he looks like an absolute psychopath, the kind that is completely unaware of himself and surroundings. It makes sense that he doesn't care about money or power -- the same way that fish doesn't care about water. He grew up surrounded by it. Musk really comes across as an irredeemable spoiled little kid.

...the communist aspects that the Biden administration wanted...tanking the stock market, and you retirement accounts..

Holy cow, this nonsense again. I ******* wish the Biden administration had any communist aspects at all. Also, those problems you mention with the stock market are a feature capitalism, not communism. Read Marx to find out why.

[Monkey]

kyle, I've run some of your quotes through "mice":

Code: Select all

$ mice -v -f -u kyle -e "Anyway because I do like the views from Elon most of the time"
Anyway because I do believe the BS from Elon most of the time
$ mice -v -f -u kyle -e "You just assume I'm this stupid person, that been brainwashed."
You realised I'm this stupid person, that been brainwashed
$ man mice | grep NOTES
NOTES: This version of mice is unable to correct errors of spelling and grammar. Future versions may possess this capability.

[kyle]

I pegged you as a far right extremist because you are a far right extremist.

If vote for person on right right peg as far right extremist, this is not the way things actually get done, this is just idiotic attacking that isolates the sides even further,

you continue to fail to process and have in your mind because i voted trump I hate immigrants. which is a complete lie.

You keep lying to yourself that I am a far right extremist and deciding all my actions are theirs like is a hive mind virus, yet I continue to point out the things the differentiate me from the far right of today.

It's like you have broken code in your mind, that cannot comprehend there is some middle ground, but since you did not vote left, you are automatically far right.

There is no invasion. If there were, I'd see it. I don't think you should listen to a new Yorker tell you there is. Those Haitians weren't eating the dogs, they were the workforce that revitalized that town.

If you were so close to the border, why didn't you go to see it, Elon did, and this is more or less an invasion. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1707565081750290910
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/30/nyre ... losed.html

[Word]

you continue to fail to process and have in your mind because i voted trump I hate immigrants

Kyle you're accusing literally everyone else here of having a narrow horizon while your media diet seems to be limited to Elon Musk and your twitter bubble. There are so many fundamental falsehoods or half-knowledge you base your views on, that it's hard to keep track and you yourself have to reverse-engineer what went wrong. In some of your posts, you write about something ridiculously specific, but then for example you don't get that until very recently the consensus was that the American Dream belongs, at least in theory, to everyone, especially undocumented immigrants who work hard and earn their place in society over time, because that's part of the story how the US was founded, grew wealthy and independent. Then you call Biden's policies "communist", meaning un-American, as if you didn't have a need for some government regulation in certain areas like every other nation on the planet does or like Biden did totalitarian things you'd expect from North Korea or like there have never been presidents on both sides who introduced socialist policies. You admit you're surprised Trump is trying to end support for green energy although that was out in the open at least since 2015(!).

As Lucifer said, you knowingly voted for the racist fearmonger who said immigrants eat dogs and who is actively dividing families and targeting poor countries for short-term economic gain, killing people. You write about a few instances of immigrant crimes and even after others link you statistics that contradict your stance, you say 1) you like what Trump is doing so far, and 2) immigrants and poor countries don't deserve financial aid, 3) you mention an "invasion". There are some more, but honestly I have other things to do and you get the idea. Then when you're called out for that, because what you're saying and voted for is inhuman, wrong and cruel, you act like you didn't mean it that way. You take some talking points from a transhumanist crackpot corporate tech bro, or let's just say you agree with some of his views and use his self-publicized BS to argue against statistics and newspaper articles that don't fit your worldview. You want to distance yourself like when you say

yet I continue to point out the things the differentiate me from the far right of today.

but what you fail to process is you voted for the guy, and your personal motives for voting the way you did or any considerations if you did it whole-heartedly are somewhat dwarfed by the global and very local suffering this guy causes in a time when the planet would be better off dealing with climate change, AIDS, serious attempts to end wars for good and so on (admittedly, Trump somehow got lucky with Iran for now, but nobody knows what will come next). No, i think everyone here processed what you said, but any justification for your individual short-term decision-making you could possibly bring up is ridiculously insignificant given the collective long-term harm this government already caused, except maybe that someone threatened you with a gun when you stood in the voting booth.

I could not stand that, as I want to be able to save Money aggressively invest it wisely and actually retire early

If that was true, again, you voted for the wrong guy and it's a mystery to me why you're so anti-communist because that's functioning communism in a nutshell.