US Election 2016

Anything About Anything...
Post Reply
Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4275
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word »

Sorry, double-post
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11653
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man »

kyle wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:15 pm
Z-Man wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 2:22 pm Now he is getting involved in European politics. Specifically, in Germany, he is pushing the AfD. Which is our extreme right, at least partially fascist party.
...
No more benefit of the doubt. Musk is a fascist.
So because a party is "at least partially fascist" and Musk now supports that party, that means, Musk is fascist. He can't be the part of the party is not fascist?
No. He supports the whole party, or he should have stated otherwise. In fact, he considers them not fascist at all. How fascist are they in reality? Several local branches are under watch by the Verfassungschutz (Constitution Protection Agency) and considered "proven extreme right", with that rating for the whole party pending and currently delayed because of the imminent elections. There are efforts underway to initiate a Parteiverbotsverfahren (which, if successful, would force them to dissolve) because their stated goals are unconstitutional.
For each semi-sane policy you could state, other parties also provide it. Like already said, economically, the FDP is close. On immigration, the CDU/CSU are pulling in the same direction (not as strongly, mind). Likewise, if it was just to "Restore Balance to the Force", the CDU/CSU would do fine. There is also some overlap with the new BSW, especially on the topics of Russia and Ukraine. Non-fascist alternatives exist.
No. If you support the AfD, you are a fascist.
kyle wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:15 pmin all seriousness, I think it comes down to handling of race and immigration. The problem is the parties on the left are fascist, via trying to irradiate White people, via allowing migrants to break laws with little consequence, but punishing white people for speaking up.
You mean 'eradicate'? Nobody is trying to do that. Literally nobody.
kyle wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:15 pmI've applied for jobs pre-covid, and at least get some sort of call back, Last year I applied to 20 to 30 jobs, and had only 1 callback.
Well, two thoughts:
1. Maybe times are generally tougher for everyone?
2. Loss of privilege can feel exactly like discrimination, but it is not.
Word wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:30 am
So because a party is "at least partially fascist"
That was almost certainly an understatement.
True. I just don't want to rule out there are people in there that don't have fascist thoughts though they have already expelled or chased away many who voiced their opinion too loudly. And, of course, a general rule applies: If you walk with fascists, you now are a fascist.
Word wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:30 amThere's no need to speak up, the news is full of racist bigotry all the time, and by now most left politicians here already stressed that they want to mass deport as many people as possible even though our progressive asylum law was a direct consequence of our actions in World War II.
Yeah, a shame that even our left wing parties are kicking Humanity in the teeth there.
Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4275
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word »

Z-Man wrote:Yeah, a shame that even our left wing parties are kicking Humanity in the teeth there.
Yes. The coming elections give us the choice between fascist and left-racist Putin-lovers with conspiratorial flavour (AfD, BSW), "the-uncle-with-whom-you-don't-talk-politics"-racist conservatives, the we-love-the-car-industry-and-do-everything-they-say green party, how-about-even-more-neoliberalism-FDP, and I-don't-remember-how-I-lost-32-billion-Euros-Scholz/social democrats. I'd like to call that a clown show, but that's something the AfD does, too, and it doesn't help anyone.
User avatar
kyle
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1920
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: Indiana, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe, Multiverse
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by kyle »

First all, and sorry for the way I worded it that lead you to think I was blaming migrants for my lack of getting any callbacks for a job, That is not what I am blaming at all. I don't mind migrants that are contributing to society, it's only those that care committing crimes or free loading off the government that i have a problem with, and even to an extent if they were here legally and had good values ad good reason to be here, I don't mind the government supporting a few migrants while they get on their feet here, but that should not be limitless. Anyway I am blaming the US government policy of DEI, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, which sounds great, but it is racist/sexist in practice, It basically says that groups of need, are more important and other are not, IE Do not hire white males, unless they are transitioning to female, It was so bad that companies will either not fill jobs, or fill them with unskilled people just to suite the DEI needs. It aims to make Equal hiring amongst all races and genders, in a population that is predominately White, and where Males are the people who typically support households. and z-man is this what you consider loss of privilege?
Z-Man wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:37 pm You mean 'eradicate'? Nobody is trying to do that. Literally nobody.
That's correct, and yes DEI policies, and that whole situation in the UK with white girls being drugged and raped, sure seams like a way someone is trying to eradicate white people.
Z-Man wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:37 pm True. I just don't want to rule out there are people in there that don't have fascist thoughts though they have already expelled or chased away many who voiced their opinion too loudly. And, of course, a general rule applies: If you walk with fascists, you now are a fascist.
But you said if you support that party you are a fascist, you can't have it both ways. I can't really comment one way or another about AfD, I just know with Trump they used several targeted quotes from him explaining something, and snipped the part that made him sound fascist, I would guess they are doing that in Germany as well, but I don't know enough to know that or not.


Also Word I guess we are in the same Job hunting position, we both are looking because we don't like our boss, I actually got a new boss at some point last year, only to get back to the one I don't like before the end of it, I've not tried in the last few months, partly because I do like the things I work on.
Image
User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer
Posts: 8702
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Lucifer »

kyle wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:24 am First all, and sorry for the way I worded it that lead you to think I was blaming migrants for my lack of getting any callbacks for a job, That is not what I am blaming at all.
Right, you're blaming non-white non-males. Which isn't any less racist or sexist than what you accuse the left of doing.

Of course, you're not blaming literally any other factor, like how hard it is to get a job, or maybe the fact that you forgot to take into account how much less jobs pay when you wrote in your salary requirements and got passed over for that. I haven't had any trouble getting a job. I've had trouble getting a good paying job, and it's not because of non-white people. Quite the contrary, there's still usually a white man making the company policies that lead to the hiring practices that are making it hard for either of us to find better jobs.
I don't mind migrants that are contributing to society, it's only those that care committing crimes or free loading off the government that i have a problem with,
So you don't mind migrants that actually exist, but you're resentful of the ones who don't. Point of fact, if you're not here legally, you don't qualify for government assistance. This is another claim you're making that's not based in fact.
and even to an extent if they were here legally and had good values ad good reason to be here,
I.e. "model minority", which is also racist.
I don't mind the government supporting a few migrants while they get on their feet here, but that should not be limitless.
Then it's a good thing the government doesn't do this. When you come here legally, you have to also come with the cash to get a place and have a job lined up already.
Anyway I am blaming the US government policy of DEI, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, which sounds great, but it is racist/sexist in practice,
No, it counters racist/sexist policies. For example, applicants' first screening process is one where the name is not included, only the content of the application. This counters a well known problem where people identify ethnic/female names and turn down the applicant without looking at the rest. Also, it is true that when someone has two candidates in front of them, a white man and a non-white other person, and both are capable of doing the job, they're looking at the current makeup of the team to make the decision, and if the current team is all white men, then no, you aren't going to get that job. And that's reasonable, because it is common practice to look at a team of white men and decide to only hire white men because "company culture".
It basically says that groups of need, are more important and other are not, IE Do not hire white males, unless they are transitioning to female,
No, it doesn't. It says that groups that have historically been oppressed need a little extra help so that we can end the oppression. Since white males are the only group in America that has never been oppressed, that means white men get lesser consideration in some circumstances.
It was so bad that companies will either not fill jobs, or fill them with unskilled people just to suite the DEI needs. It aims to make Equal hiring amongst all races and genders,
Also not true. At the highest levels of some companies, this is true, because these companies didn't want their entire board of directors to be made up of white people because that has been part of the problem, historically. When white people run a company, that company hires mostly/only white people.

There have been companies whining about not getting skilled applicants and many of them have been exposed as ignoring non-white applicants. Apparently being white is a skill they're still looking for.
in a population that is predominately White, and where Males are the people who typically support households. and z-man is this what you consider loss of privilege?
YOu seriously need to get out of your bubble. Most two parent households are supported by both parents, and women are increasingly becoming breadwinners for their families. Also, the population being majority white is part of the problem, but here in Texas, white people have dropped below the majority. We're still a plurality, but all non-white people in the state now add up to more than 50% of the population. That being the case, and using your reasoning, why are Texas companies and management positions still 90% white in a state where white people are less than 50% of the population?

Oh right, this is why DEI policies exist, to combat institutional racism, and Texas is the poster child of that.
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden
User avatar
sinewav
Graphic Artist
Posts: 6440
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:37 am
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by sinewav »

kyle wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:15 pmI've applied for jobs pre-covid, and at least get some sort of call back, Last year I applied to 20 to 30 jobs, and had only 1 callback.
I think this is what gamers call a "skill issue". There are tons of factors related to you not getting a job that have nothing to do with the DEI boogeyman, and your "woe-is-me" crying about it is incredibly childish. Let's not forget that tech hiring has been declining for a couple years now and that has more to do with companies becoming more automated and moving divisions overseas than migrants coming to the US. Let's also not forget that a lot of postings are for jobs that simply don't exist.

Let me tell you a story about an actual "DEI" experience I had. Almost 10 years ago I was taking a certificate course for Linux web server security and I became friends with a woman in my class from El Salvador. Over the nine months of lectures and labs we became great friends and did a lot of projects together. She had no previous Linux experience and I happened to be the best in the class, so I enjoyed helping her. Near graduation I applied for an internship at a local datacenter that needed to migrate backups over rsync. Easy stuff! My phone interview went great and I was pretty excited. A week later, my friend told me she landed that same internship I applied for. Amazing! I didn't get the job even though I was clearly and without a doubt more qualified than her. But you know what? I wasn't upset in the slightest because I was happy for her. I knew that her opportunities were far and few between and that I would land a job somewhere else. And I was right. After six months her project ended and they decided to not keep her on staff, and in that same time-frame I got a really intense IT/Programming job at an amazing company and stayed at for over five years. Was my not getting the job at the datacenter because of anti-white racism and a breakdown of meritocracy? Probably not, it was likely just because she fit the requirements and the team thought it would be nice to have a woman in the office because the job is dominated by men. I would have made the same decision (in fact I did make that decision at a different job, but that's a story for another time).
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11653
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man »

kyle wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:24 am It aims to make Equal hiring amongst all races and genders,
Important nitpick, PROPORTIONAL hiring. If the general population is 30% Black and 70% White, then for any job, in the long term, 30% of positions should be filled with Black people, and 70% White. Statistical fluctuations allowed, of course. Would you disagree that that is what the end state of a non-racist society should be?
kyle wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:24 amin a population that is predominately White, and where Males are the people who typically support households. and z-man is this what you consider loss of privilege?
Yeah, and misogynistic to boot.
kyle wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:24 am
Z-Man wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:37 pm You mean 'eradicate'? Nobody is trying to do that. Literally nobody.
That's correct, and yes DEI policies, and that whole situation in the UK with white girls being drugged and raped, sure seams like a way someone is trying to eradicate white people.
Not entirely surprised what you are referring to happened over a decade ago and was dragged up recently by Musk. Sure it's horrible, but does not meet the required scale or quality for 'eradication'. But I have to weaken my statement: There probably are SOME people, presumably in basements, that do want to eradicate all White people (same for every other group, naturally). They're just not going to get very far.
kyle wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:24 am
Z-Man wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:37 pm True. I just don't want to rule out there are people in there that don't have fascist thoughts though they have already expelled or chased away many who voiced their opinion too loudly. And, of course, a general rule applies: If you walk with fascists, you now are a fascist.
But you said if you support that party you are a fascist, you can't have it both ways. I can't really comment one way or another about AfD, I just know with Trump they used several targeted quotes from him explaining something, and snipped the part that made him sound fascist, I would guess they are doing that in Germany as well, but I don't know enough to know that or not.
Let me explain my (limited, trust me) sympathies for non-fascist AfD members. As far as I know, and I'm not at all an expert, the AfD did not start out explicitly fascists, it was just a general "Protest Party", their main guideline for policies was "Whatever the Greens say, we want the opposite". They may always have had fascists amongst them, I don't know, but their contrarian program attracted fascists. Then there was a power struggle between the more moderate, democracy friendly forces and the fascists. The fascists won. I totally get why a non-fascist would want to stay in the party and try to change them for the better from within. I do think they should just leave and found a new party, WA, "Wahre Alternative", True Alternative, or something, because, I repeat, walk with fascists, be a fascist.

People coming in now, or supporting the party from abroad even, should definitely know what they're getting into, though.

As for evidence of the dangers of the AfD, apart from what they say and write, also the few times they had the chance, they abused the institutions of democracy to discredit the same institutions, as per the fascist playbook. Most recently, in the first session of the newly elected parliament of Thuringia, one of their guys was able to lead the procedures, because he was the oldest member of the parliament. And he completely blocked the normal election of the local president. He had to be forced later by the local supreme court. Which the AfD then of course used to discredit the court, because, get this, the judges had been appointed by the other parties. Hey look, I already wrote about it back here.
All the links of stuff I have read are in German, so they would not be much use to you, and I can't currently be bothered to dig out English texts or check their google translations. Maybe later. Or maybe you can do some research outside of your bubble?
User avatar
kyle
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1920
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: Indiana, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe, Multiverse
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by kyle »

Z-Man wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 12:43 am All the links of stuff I have read are in German, so they would not be much use to you, and I can't currently be bothered to dig out English texts or check their google translations. Maybe later. Or maybe you can do some research outside of your bubble?
I want to respond to more than just this, but don't have much time, but wanted to save yours, Honestly I don't think translated text would work well, too much gets lost, I'd prefer hearing in German exactly what they said and everything around it, but I know that's likely not going to help me either. If you had a youtube video of it maybe it with I think it may auto translate CC to English would help. But don't try finding one it you don't.

I will post more on DEI at some point, I hear your points, I will admit I am over exaggerating things, but in light of something just feels off with the hiring process, Like I initially said my resume may not have been the greatest. Salary I don't think If asked I ever asked for more than the range was posted, and typically just above the bottom end of it. It could be that I've stayed a "software engineer" for all 10 years at my company, we don't have levels where I work, there are only 3 of us at my company now, and we are not all white. there is a "Senior software engineer" position, but that meant more management which I never wanted.
Image
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11653
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man »

kyle wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 2:35 am If you had a youtube video of it maybe it with I think it may auto translate CC to English would help. But don't try finding one it you don't.
Did a quick search, watched a couple. Subtitles are accurate. Voiceovers too, as far as I can tell. Here is a good one by Deutsche Welle, the state funded, but independent, information channel for German affairs for foreigners:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEIJmszgYHg
here is one by the BBC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvtHlHJe9I

This third by PBS one has large overlaps with the two above, so only watch if you skipped one of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvgCMPPfkg
User avatar
kyle
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1920
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: Indiana, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe, Multiverse
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by kyle »

Z-Man wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:45 pm but independent, information channel for German affairs for foreigners:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEIJmszgYHg
here is one by the BBC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvtHlHJe9I

This third by PBS one has large overlaps with the two above, so only watch if you skipped one of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvgCMPPfkg
These are exactly what I did not want, "sound bites", from the media, cropped and clipped speeches to frame people for certain things. I still did watch all of the BBC and part of the first one. I was looking for something like what happened today on X, a full conversation with Alice Weidal from the AfD, https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1877412961754501184 worth listening to, starts about 12 minutes in, and once they talk about why Mars, 10 to 15 minutes from the end, it's no longer relevant, but good if you want to know Elon's vision for Mars and beyond.

If you know of anything like that from other parties, or even from the AfD, with someone other than Elon asking the questions, I would be happy to listen to them as well. I'm genuinely more curious about this than I had been.

EDIT: I had missed this before, since it came with a warning, youtube does auto-translate this to English I may try to watch it as well.
Word wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:30 am (for the German-speaking forum users, I highly recommend this very long Sonneborn-video about how we might bully Romania out of the EU).
Image
Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4275
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word »

kyle wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:51 amEDIT: I had missed this before, since it came with a warning, youtube does auto-translate this to English I may try to watch it as well.
Word wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:30 am (for the German-speaking forum users, I highly recommend this very long Sonneborn-video about how we might bully Romania out of the EU).
I took a quick look, the auto translation seems to do a good enough job. Some of the puns might be lost. Von der Leyen = the woman leading the European commission, our former minister of defense. Laie (plural Laien) = layperson. The guy founded the satirical party "THE PARTY" that had "Let's not leave Europe to the Leyen!"(approx. "leypeople", pronouciation is the same for us) for a slogan and promised to rebuild the East German Wall to keep the East Germans out again, among other things. He also regularly refers to the conservative candidate Friedrich Merz as "Fotzenfritz" (approx. "Fannyfred"?). So take some of what he says with a grain of salt.
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11653
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man »

kyle wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:51 am These are exactly what I did not want, "sound bites", from the media, cropped and clipped speeches to frame people for certain things.
Very well, you can also watch the whole opening session of the Thuringia Landtag here, if you desire, see what happens if they only get a tiny bit of power, and watch how they turn it into a farce: https://www.youtube.com/live/CBulDRw9YO ... oh&t=11472
Keep it in the background for the vibes. The timestamp is one of the juicier bits. Before you think "Well that's not too bad, they seem calm enough", remember that this is GERMANY.
kyle wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:51 am I still did watch all of the BBC and part of the first one. I was looking for something like what happened today on X, a full conversation with Alice Weidal from the AfD, https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1877412961754501184 worth listening to, starts about 12 minutes in, and once they talk about why Mars, 10 to 15 minutes from the end, it's no longer relevant, but good if you want to know Elon's vision for Mars and beyond.
Well, have you noticed anything about what she says there? While I listen to it myself on some other source, making notes. Let's see how far I get.
The problem there is of course that if you let these people talk without someone to ask critical questions and stop them when they're BSing, they'll do their best to not sound all that bad and extreme.
User avatar
kyle
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1920
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: Indiana, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe, Multiverse
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by kyle »

Z-Man wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:05 pm Very well, you can also watch the whole opening session of the Thuringia Landtag here, if you desire, see what happens if they only get a tiny bit of power, and watch how they turn it into a farce: https://www.youtube.com/live/CBulDRw9YO ... oh&t=11472
Apparently that video is too long for closed captioning, I did watch the opening statement from some news site, and this highlight clip, that likely cuts too much out of it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZbQcsej760 I also found it's really hard to figure out closed captions when 2 people are arguing.
I'm sure there are likely flaws in what I say, and no I've not read anything about it (yep a bit of a bubble), but what I could understand from watching the start and those highlights, my understanding is there is a conflict on what rules apply as to who is supposed to be the leader, AfD member though it was him, since he was the oldest, and others wanted to vote on it?
Z-Man wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:05 pm Well, have you noticed anything about what she says there?
I kind of wanted to hear your take on it first, but I will say that I agree with a lot of what she said in that, there are a few concerns I have based on it, but I also don't have other parties views to compare it with either, so even though I have some concerns based on it, other parties I may have more concerns with.
Image
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11653
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man »

kyle wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 4:35 am I'm sure there are likely flaws in what I say, and no I've not read anything about it (yep a bit of a bubble), but what I could understand from watching the start and those highlights, my understanding is there is a conflict on what rules apply as to who is supposed to be the leader, AfD member though it was him, since he was the oldest, and others wanted to vote on it?
Oh yeah, it is hard to figure out even if you do understand the language, it's all quoting paragraphs and stuff. Now, I'm not firm in Thuringian law, and it's currently hard to find understandable information, because no matter what you search for, you always get this... Add "The way I understand it is..." to everything. It's about the election of the President of Parliament. That role is similar to the Speaker of the House, it's the person who leads the proceedings of the parliament, moderates debates and such. They don't make any actual political decisions, that would be the role of the Prime Minister. The President needs to be elected, and that is a bit of a problem, because that election needs to be overseen by the President... so to bootstrap that, on the first day, the oldest member of Parliament, the Alterspräsident, gets that honor, and usually quickly proceeds matters to get the real President elected to take over. This time, that guy was Jürgen Treuter, the white bearded guy from the AfD.
Anyway, the AfD had two goals then:
Primary: Get someone from the AfD elected as proper President of Parliament
Secondary: If that fails, cause at least as much chaos as possible
Their read of the Constitution and lesser documents (the Geschäftsordnung, Order of Operations of the Parliament) was that it is the sole right of the largest fraction to suggest candidates for the President, the strongest fraction this time being the AfD. It has to be said that the written rules there are EXTREMELY vague, which is a flaw they need to fix (and the left wing parties tried to fix beforehand, but were rejected by the conservatives...), but later, the local Supreme Court ruled that they were wrong, so they were wrong.
Treuter did this very long speech laying out his party's reasoning for their interpretation, which took several hours, with interruptions, refused to grant speaking rights to anyone, and refused to even acknowledge that the Parliament was in a state where things could be voted on. He insisted on following his own schedule, which the rest of the fractions disagreed on, so in the end, the session was aborted, and the Supreme Court was called to make a decision on how to proceed two days later.
The court ruling was that Treuter violated the rights of the Members of Parliament, he should have recognized the Parliament's ability to vote, and let them vote on how to proceed instead of following his own agenda.
In the continuation of the session after the rule, everyone was allowed to suggest candidates, and aside from the AfD candidate, the CDU man König was nominated, and won the election with absolute majority.
So primary goal failed, secondary goal achieved.

Right, the conversation. The meaty bit start right with some bold reinterpretation of recent history:

https://youtu.be/cpjKbWKZn00?si=30_M-hC-n1UO_DMY&t=122
Merkel was not Green. The only Green thing she did was lead the decision to end nuclear power production in the wake of the Fukushima disaster, with broad popular support I might add. And funnily, the Greens are now blamed for that. (My stance in a nutshell: It's good that we ended nuclear, but we should have ended coal first.)
She did not promote wind and solar power, at least not significantly. Sure, they talked a lot about it, but actions did not follow. Under her rule, there were a lot of roadblocks to building renewable energy power plants. That only got better, and yes, better, with our still current government.
Yeah, she opened the borders in 2015. To call it opening them to 'illegal immigration' is dehumanizing and wrong. The borders were opened to refugees of the Syrian civil war. To people in need. Yes, she did not ask the German people for permission, that was not her job, that is not how this works, you don't hold a referendum for every decision. She was reelected after that, by the way, that counts as approval.

https://youtu.be/cpjKbWKZn00?si=F2WXApRTQG1Th7l-&t=490
KILOWATT PER HOUR IS NOT A SENSIBLE UNIT. Drives me up the wall, that. The result correct, though. To replace one nuclear power plant, you need around a thousand wind turbines. However, you can place them all over the country, and the real land use is just the base of the tower, you can still use the land for farming or growing woods no problem.
Musk is correct that the core of a power plant is tiny, but you need all the large bits around it to actually make the energy it produces useful. You can't just take a power plant, add another core, and get double the power.

https://youtu.be/cpjKbWKZn00?si=UiqtoOHEoUV3Fwrm&t=572
Power plant shutdown: Yes, unfortunate timing, but that decision was made long ago and was not reversible at that point. They had no fuel left, replacement would have taken a while, and in anticipation of the planned shutdown, had not received safety inspections for longer operation, and no replacement operators for retiring staff had been hired, let alone trained. Stretching the operation for a couple of months was really all that could be done, and we made it through fine without ANY power outages.

Elimination of Bureaucracy: No objections there. Except that it is one of those typical complaints that aim to sow mistrust in the state in general, and it's unlikely they would be able to do much about it. Much good, anyway. What I found in their program is just that they want to get rid of environmental regulations. All of them, as far as I can tell. Well, at least now I know why Musk likes them so much.

Taxes:
https://youtu.be/cpjKbWKZn00?si=-HEiK1BM7vBEoIxU&t=920
Lies. Our average income TAX rate is actually quite low in comparison:
https://www.worlddata.info/income-taxes.php
The average worker spends barely over one month working for "The State".
Now, it's true that there are other deductions from salaries, like mandatory health and unemployment insurance, which add up. They are not for the state, however, but for the workers and their families.

Crime rates are also not "skyrocketing". Look at the graph in the official police report, the blue line is for recorded cases: https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformati ... _node.html
A small uptick as we came out of the Covid lockdowns, but still lower than 2015/1016.
Murders have gone down significantly over the past decade.

...
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11653
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man »

Weidel claims three times that Gender Studies is all they teach in school these days. I checked with Z-Girl, her sum of knowledge in Gender Studies is that there are men and women and (probably because I said it) diverse people and... foxes. I'm glad she is open-minded. So if they are teaching Gender Studies at all, they're doing a terrible job.

PISA test: Yep, we sucked at them the first time around, and slipped further down recently. Our main problem is that the education level and wealth of the parents has a much larger influence on a kid's success in school than in other countries. Poor kids do far worse than rich kids. I read the relevant sections of the AfD program, and there is nothing in there addressing that issue.

https://youtu.be/cpjKbWKZn00?si=uJqAbm0vEdLru-Lz&t=1250
Lies again, no, you are not allowed to throw away your passport. You can still deport the people who do anyway, you just don't immediately know where to.
Our borders are open because we are surrounded by friends. Well, usually open. Right now, there are token security theater controls.
Her numbers are likely wrong. Impossible to tell when she does not say what she means precisely. In 2021, there were only 14.2 million people in Germany considered immigrants.... by which they mean they immigrated SINCE 1950. That includes EU citizens and people who have acquired German citizenship since they immigrated. Source:
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/0 ... 80_12.html
The best case I can think of would be that she forgot about the people who migrated back to their country of origin.

After that, they go on about the California theft thing. And I have to ask: Do you have a Bullshit Detector? A bit in your brain that goes "Hang on, that sounds ridiculous, it would be horrible and/or really stupid if that were true, let me check?", and then you go and check whether it is true? A good Bullshit Detector does still produce false positives and false negatives, mind. The false positive rate, when you go check on something, and it turns out to be true, because sometimes things are horrible and/or stupid, should be between 25% and 75% ballpark. Yeah, that's a case where it should have raised an alarm.
All theft is still a crime in California. Misdemeanor is still a crime, you can still go to jail for it.

The Gender Studies thing is also something where a Bullshit Detector could have gone off, admittedly with little opportunity for you to go check.

I ran out of links to put in a single post a while back, so here is where I have to stop. Barely got 20% in. I did not make it to the part I heard in reports, that Weidel claimed that Hitler was Left, actually, which is a well known narrative on the extreme right to put as much perceived distance between them and Hitler. Fact is, the Communists were the very first to be actually persecuted by the Nazis, even before the Jews, and there is little merit to that argument overall.

Weidel complained in the bits I heard that she can't have a normal conversation on German TV and gets constantly interrupted. Maybe that is because she is peddling so much BS one immediately has to contradict?
Post Reply