~Misc Stuff~ Decision Overturn

[Lucifer]

As far as changes to allow Durf back, I still want to be able to mark a user as having to have posts approved again before they can post freely, and something in place so that if Durf starts using PMs to harass people again, we can stop him easily without a ban (we may have that, but I haven't found anything in the UI for it).

There should be an option to change a single user's permissions, and disallow private messages. If not, you could create a special group, cloned from regular members, that doesn't allow PM's. It's been a long time since I've even looked at phpBB, but I'm pretty sure it's possible without any plugins, given you have access to change user and group permissions.

Heh, since you're in irc and I'm not, you should ping tank and tell him that. I'm willing to bet that this will work. As a moderator, I do have the ability to move someone from the "Registered Users" group to another group, I believe. At least, the option is there in the UI, but there aren't other groups I can put them in.

Of course, it still doesn't give us the "Must post 10 new moderated posts before posting freely again" option that I want, but it would be a solid step towards being able to let Durf back. (Note: As angry as I may have been, I really only supported Durf's ban because it was the only tool we had. Once we started talking about other moderator tools we could have, I immediately started talking about which ones would make it possible to let Durf come back, as did Z-man, so this "feud" people are talking about sounds ridiculous to me. It's Durf's unilateral feud. None of us are feuding)

On a side note. If you need any help weeding through the pending posts, I'd be happy to help. I have noticed some of them in the competitions forum, but not wanting to step where I shouldn't.

There are too few to matter, to be honest. Also, I know that someone else is working quietly on the queue besides me. Occasionally I can see it in realtime when I see a spam post that's waiting for approval, and when I click the icon to disapprove it, nothing comes up because someone else took care of it. I wouldn't have a problem making you a moderator here, of course, just pointing out that help moderating the pending post list isn't really needed right now.

[[Anonymous]]

Durf is the Armagetron Prophet (Sarcasm) as if one man could save this game.

[sinewav]

Follow the lead, or take the PROGRESSIVE IDEAS and go elsewhere

There is nothing about this system preventing progressive ideas. The code is there for you to do what you wish. You have total freedom. Though we al know it is attention you seek, not progress.

[ConVicT]

Hey, isn't that "Gaz's" brand of footwear?

[Light]

You can probably unsubscribe to that

I'm using the feed, so willfully having them sent to my phone so I don't actually need to check on the forums unless I want to post. The spam was never terrible enough here to make me stop my use of the feed, but it's nice that it's no longer cluttered up with useless stuff.

Heh, since you're in irc and I'm not, you should ping tank and tell him that.

I haven't sat around IRC for a while. I just haven't really taken a lot of time to sit around on the computer at home lately. Got a new dog foster and he's needing a bit of work so I can get him ready for a new home. On top of that, I sit on a computer for 8 hours a day working, so unless there's something I actually want to do at home, I pretty much just use it to stream movies at this point.

[Z-Man]

{Post above was posted while I was typing and has me confused, I may or may not read it later. He does not want to be involved, but got Rider to post on his behalf? That's a form of ban evasion, too. Edit: Read it as much as the impeding bedtime allowed. FYI, it was Rider quoting a massive block of Durf. Swearing and doing his usual thing. No, not having any of that.}

I'd only be prepared to let Durf back if there was any indication that he would not continue with his pestering. Like, for example, him recognizing he did something wrong. Does not look to me like that's going to happen any time soon. He claims he is guided by reason and logic, but in truth he's just as impulsive and irrational as the rest of us, he's just better at fooling himself into believing he's rational.

I speak condescendingly to people I consider lower than myself

Yeah, like that. He has a convenient box to put people in so he can be rude to them at will. Harass them, try to intimidate them, whatever. It does not matter since they're lower than him. Very ethical.

I don't think better mod tools would help. Even if we put him on permanent moderation, WE WOULD STIILL need to read his drivel. And deal with his DEMANDS OF PROPER REASONS if we ever dare to disapprove one of his posts.

As a moderator, I do have the ability to move someone from the "Registered Users" group to another group, I believe. At least, the option is there in the UI, but there aren't other groups I can put them in.

I don't think you have that power. You're referring to the "Groups" dropdown list in the user profiles? That just takes you to the list of all members of that group.

Occasionally I can see it in realtime when I see a spam post that's waiting for approval, and when I click the icon to disapprove it, nothing comes up because someone else took care of it.

/me waves. I use this handy summary page for all my quick moderator actions. Two clicks to dismiss all spam. Though I usually take the time to ban obvious spammers right away. And only today realized that the MCP in the URI is not a custom mod, but just stands for Moderator Control Panel

I'm not actively posting too much because my IT infrastructure is currently a bit in a transition I have to get used to. My big PC needed a reinstall after Windows got borked and unbootable beyond repair (whether it was the Windows 10 update or the Ubuntu 16.04 update, I can't tell). Linux is already running fully again, Windows too, but still pretty naked. And my Laptop pretty much melted and got replaced by a tablet I'm still getting used to. The next computery things I have to do are a) get Windows back into a usable state and b) do our taxes with it. I'm sure you all can do without updates on that

Regarding IRC, what I'm currently experimenting with is ZNC, a regular IRC bouncer most clients can connect to. It keeps me online, in theory makes it so that I don't miss a thing (the IRC clients can still mess this up). I just have not found a perfect IRC client for the tablet yet.

[ConVicT]

Yeah, like that. He has a convenient box to put people in so he can be rude to them at will. Harass them, try to intimidate them, whatever. It does not matter since they're lower than him. Very ethical.

I don't think better mod tools would help. Even if we put him on permanent moderation, WE WOULD STIILL need to read his drivel. And deal with his DEMANDS OF PROPER REASONS if we ever dare to disapprove one of his posts.

Man, you're a very calm person, it only takes me five minutes with him to make me that furious.

[Word]

Follow the lead, or take the code and go elsewhere

It's this mindset that doesn't allow the game grow. With growth comes inevitable change...[pseudo-philosophical BS]

Can you actually explain how being banned here prevents Durf from contributing to the game? He was banned a year ago and apparently still doesn't get why.

[Lucifer]

As a moderator, I do have the ability to move someone from the "Registered Users" group to another group, I believe. At least, the option is there in the UI, but there aren't other groups I can put them in.

I don't think you have that power. You're referring to the "Groups" dropdown list in the user profiles? That just takes you to the list of all members of that group.

Yeah, that's the drop-down I was talking about. I've never clicked the button for it because I didn't want to accidentally screw anybody over, not that I could because the only group listed in the drop-down is Registered Users.

Occasionally I can see it in realtime when I see a spam post that's waiting for approval, and when I click the icon to disapprove it, nothing comes up because someone else took care of it.

/me waves. I use this handy summary page for all my quick moderator actions. Two clicks to dismiss all spam. Though I usually take the time to ban obvious spammers right away. And only today realized that the MCP in the URI is not a custom mod, but just stands for Moderator Control Panel

And a quick click on that link shows Z-man having the last 5 moderator log entries.

Regarding IRC, what I'm currently experimenting with is ZNC, a regular IRC bouncer most clients can connect to. It keeps me online, in theory makes it so that I don't miss a thing (the IRC clients can still mess this up). I just have not found a perfect IRC client for the tablet yet.

I haven't found even a "good" irc client for Android (I'm assuming you got an Android tablet, but I suppose you could've gotten an ubuntu tablet). The problem, I think, is with the OS itself, actually. The OS will shut-down the app completely, and there's a callback for that when you develop an app so you can save the state. From the user's point of view, the app never shut-down (if you implement the callback properly, that is), and from the tablet's point of view, apps don't unnecessarily occupy CPU time and run down the battery. But an irc client is supposed to always be active, even in the background. There are alarm clock apps that do the job of being alarm clocks (I use one), but they don't need an always-on network connection. That's the other rub with an irc client, it needs not only an always-on network connection, but a never-changing network connection. Depending on bandwidth use on my home wifi and available 4g bandwidth on my cell network, I switch back and forth between the two all the time. An irc client would have trouble with that (that's my phone, though, obviously).

[|Phantom~Rider|]

Follow the lead, or take the code and go elsewhere

It's this mindset that doesn't allow the game grow. With growth comes inevitable change...[pseudo-philosophical BS]

"Pseudophilosophy is a term, often considered derogatory, applied to criticize philosophical ideas or systems which are claimed not to meet an expected set of standards."


Please elaborate your ideas here, there is an ambiguous tone. Also, please refer to the quote properly, and I question if your modification was accidental seeing as how you can't really **** up pressing one button and deleting all the excess words you don't need.

[Word]

No. You have to answer what keeps you, Durf (seeing that we only talk through your parrot), from doing your own thing with the code, then sharing it. Somebody's mindset you say? What does that have to do with anything you can do or can't do if you want to?

[Lucifer]

No. You have to answer what keeps you, Durf (seeing that we only talk through your parrot), from doing your own thing with the code, then sharing it. Somebody's mindset you say? What does that have to do with anything you can do or can't do if you want to?

See, this is what I don't get. There's nothing stopping them, whoever they are (I assume Durf and his supporters). There's nothing stopping them.

Want to organize a community? Sure, go right ahead. That's how these forums came to exist in the first place, so you'll be stepping in somebody's footsteps.

Want to make changes to the game? Yeah, do that. Release early, release often, word from Linux Torvalds, not my own words.

What's stopping you? Your own inhibitions (since, you know, someone in this thread said that Durf wouldn't fork the game because he apparently has respect that he only shows when it involved forking the game)? What's stopping you?

DO IT. What other form of permission can you get? Z-man? Z-man want to give someone permission to fork the game?

@Z-man: Tell them to DO IT.

@Tank Program: Tell them to DO IT.

@Everybody else: Tell them to DO IT.

DO IT, and quit bothering us with this tripe. You think you've got it all together and you can show us how to run forums, then go ahead and SHOW US. DO IT. Stop making excuses, stop coming up with reasons why you CAN'T do anything, and STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

DO IT.

Durf talks a lot about proof, and then he talks a lot longer. GIVE PROOF. SHOW ME THE CODE. DO IT.

And quit bothering us here. The very next Durf-related post I expect to see is a post advertising his release of his changes in his branch. NOTHING ELSE. EVER.

SHOW US.

[Light]

See, this is what I don't get. There's nothing stopping them, whoever they are (I assume Durf and his supporters). There's nothing stopping them.

Want to organize a community? Sure, go right ahead. That's how these forums came to exist in the first place, so you'll be stepping in somebody's footsteps.

Want to make changes to the game? Yeah, do that. Release early, release often, word from Linux Torvalds, not my own words.

What's stopping you? Your own inhibitions (since, you know, someone in this thread said that Durf wouldn't fork the game because he apparently has respect that he only shows when it involved forking the game)? What's stopping you?

DO IT. What other form of permission can you get? Z-man? Z-man want to give someone permission to fork the game?

@Z-man: Tell them to DO IT.

@Tank Program: Tell them to DO IT.

@Everybody else: Tell them to DO IT.

DO IT, and quit bothering us with this tripe. You think you've got it all together and you can show us how to run forums, then go ahead and SHOW US. DO IT. Stop making excuses, stop coming up with reasons why you CAN'T do anything, and STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

DO IT.

Durf talks a lot about proof, and then he talks a lot longer. GIVE PROOF. SHOW ME THE CODE. DO IT.

And quit bothering us here. The very next Durf-related post I expect to see is a post advertising his release of his changes in his branch. NOTHING ELSE. EVER.

SHOW US.

I guess he's right in that I sound like you. lol I pretty much have the same feelings about it. Fork it if you want something new, if you want something to change and you have all these great ideas, put up a patch, or even if you can't do that then leave a new feature suggestion and if the idea is turned down for whatever reason you can't really bitch about it. If you want it done bad enough, you can learn. At this point, perfect code isn't even asked for. Decent hackjob and poof.

Every time I brought this up, I just got told that if he was going to do that he would rather do a full rewrite, but if I tell him he should do that then, he just seems to get upset.

I think this topic was worn out the first time when it went on for months. If Durf really has something useful to comment for here, he could privately contact who he needs to. There's no reason to keep putting this crap in the forums.

Although on the note of rewrites, I could very well see this project replaced by one created in the Unity Engine. It doesn't have to be a perfect clone, although copying the looks shouldn't be overly difficult. The exact feel such as acceleration and whatnot would very likely differ, and people would need to get used to it, but when it's able to have a web client, there's nothing holding it back from replacing this project, which I must sadly admit is a bit outdated (in my opinion). Hell, you could even include it on mobile, which would easily jack up your player count in no time at all. The only part that's more difficult to me is network play, which I was never good at, but I don't really want to do it, so I guess it's not a huge problem at the moment.

[Z-Man]

I haven't found even a "good" irc client for Android (I'm assuming you got an Android tablet, but I suppose you could've gotten an ubuntu tablet). The problem, I think, is with the OS itself, actually.

Technically, I got the Ubuntu tablet (BQ Aquaris M10 FHD Ubuntu Edition) and a bluetooth keyboard with a slot that neatly holds the tablet, making the whole combination look like a laptop with an oversized keyboard or tiny screen. It's just... well... Ubuntu is not ready for actual use yet. I got the tablet for these things what I did with the Laptop previously 95% of the time:
-Web stuff
-Reading RSS news feeds
-Watching videos direcly on youtube or other platforms, from video podcasts or our DNLA media server
-IRC
-ssh to manage servers
I don't mind the meagre app pool Ubuntu undeniably has and especially not the lack of games. I've always chased the "and maybe I can play a game or two on it" configurations of Laptops and ended up not using it nearly enough to make it worth the extra cost (weight, power consumption, noise). Of those wishes, what works:

-Web stuff. The default tablet mode browser is competent enough. Crashes a couple of times a day, but recovers quickly enough. It does not have adblock (or a plugin architecture that would allow it to be plugged in) and does not have a password manager, so it's a tad inconvenient. There is also Desktop Mode Firefox. Desktop mode apps work just fine in tablet mode as fullscreen windows, they just still have the desktop UI and popup windows act weird, covering the lower half of the screen. Anyway, Firefox is sluggish since it uses the desktop rendering engine expecting desktop power, and swipe scrolling naturally does not work, menus and scrollbars are tiny. It's only for when you need a full proper browser.
-RSS news. The default app for that is quite slick, actually.
The rest just does not work.
-IRC: The default app for that is Desktop Mode XChat with enlarged UI elements. It works quite well. However, Ubuntu is even meaner to background apps. Android only shuts them down when memory is tight and some apps (especially those requiring permanent network connections) have problems with that. Ubuntu flat out SIGSTOPs apps that are not currently visible. No IRC client would be able to keep up the connection, no IRC client can send you notifications when you get pinged. There are plans to allow application cores to run in the background while only the UI is stopped or killed off entirely, but they're just plans.
- SSH: Works, obviously, but suffers from the same connection loss problems as IRC. Better be quick with looking up the documentation in the browser or you lose your session.
Before we get to video, I have to say that there are systemwide performance issues. The UI does not seem to be capable of going beyond 30FPS. There is a constant lag between input and output of 300-500 ms. Not damning for a tablet you control with your fingers so the lag does not usually enter your hand-eye coordination feedback loop, but a clear sign they put how the system looks before how it feels to actually use. The mouse pointer in desktop mode also has some lag, luckily far less so it's also not critical. The cursor must be rendered quite late in the pipeline, I reckon. Mouse support is a bit wonky, too. It's too slow by default and the only configurable speed slider does not just up the speed, it's some weird acceleration effect.
- Video: Total failure on multiple fronts. First, they're limited to 30FPS, of course. Then they somehow forgot their display lag; that means audio is constantly way ahead of the video. My brain was utterly incapable of linking voices I heard to people I saw talking. That's no matter what playback method was used, be it the internal media player or web videos. They seem to be aware of it, at least, there's an accepted bug tracker entry for it. Web videos also stutter horribly and freeze for fractions of a second at a time.
Also NONE of the sensible paths to access videos, aside from local playback and streaming in the web browser, are supported. DNLA? Nope. Video podcasts? Nope. SMB/CIFS? Nope. NFS? Don't be silly.
(Some of those things work if you give yourself full write access to the system. Then you can use the usual apt-get tools to install stuff and I suppose you can then mount whatever you expect to be mountable on a Unix system. If you do that, however, it's completely unknow what the next proper udate is going to do to your device. There was not yet a regular way to install new desktop applications, by the way, that was/is going to be in the first update only. So there's no gcc.)

So I just flashed the thing with Android after about a week of fighting. Luckily, that's explicitly suppored. There, the things I want actually work pretty well. I miss Emacs and OpenOffice hypothetically, but in practice, if I crave some proper Unix, I just ssh to the raspi. I'll give Ubuntu another go after a couple of updates or ten.

This post was written on the thing, by the way. With a comfty keyboard, I really don't miss a proper laptop much.

Forgot to say earlier: I would support Light getting full moderator access. An extra pair of eyes would be good. I mean, I did say it before, but I think only in a private chat with Tank.

[Light]

On the topic of an IRC client for Android. AndroIRC has worked perfectly for me when I wanted it, and supports SASL, so it can log into hosts like Freenode who require it in certain situations.