Phytotron's stupid computer blog

[Phytotron]

I think this has something to with XFCE's grid. As you probably know, icons always snap to the grid. The size of the grid may be slightly offset from your monitor resolution causing you to lose a row. My resolution is 1280x800 (16:10) and I can use the bottom row. However, if I change my desktop icon size from 32px to 33 I will lose the bottom. You might want to play around with the icon or panel sizes to see if there is a better fit.

Hmm, interesting. If I go with Xubuntu, I'll try that. My monitor is 16:9.

Yes, it happens and is slightly annoying.

Such a weird behavior to leave in there; surely they were aware of it before release. It's not present in any other distro I looked at, and I think they're all pretty much using the same stuff. Makes me wonder if there's like some little line of code somewhere that could fix it.

Seems to me that a volume notification should only display if using media keys, which brings me to the question: Does your keyboard have media keys for volume? Mine does not, so I have to use the slider, which I do a lot. I'm wondering, if a media key is used to change the volume does it only display the notification and not the pop-up slider? If so, that would be fine; I always used the media keys on my Macs. I've been wanting to get a different keyboard anyway.


I still can't make up my mind which distro to go with. I'm kinda leaning toward Xubuntu, despite this silly volume thing and the evil local window menu. Not even sure why, just a gut feelin'. Easy enough to install something else if I change my mind.

[sinewav]

Seems to me that a volume notification should only display if using media keys, which brings me to the question: Does your keyboard have media keys for volume?

I do have media keys. I agree that volume notifications should be disabled when you are moving a slider on the screen because the slider itself is the only visual feedback you need! Apparently you can disable a process named xfce4-volumed in "Settings Manager >> Sessions and Startup >> Application Autostart" (see attached) and this will eliminate all volume notifications for the panel app and media keys, it will not differentiate. Given your lack of hardware keys this seems like a good option.

I still can't make up my mind which distro to go with. I'm kinda leaning toward Xubuntu, despite this silly volume thing and the evil local window menu. Not even sure why, just a gut feelin'. Easy enough to install something else if I change my mind.

Our recent banter in this thread caused me to look once again at Ubuntu Studio, billed as "Linux for Creative Humans." [eye roll] The distro switched to XFCE a few years ago and I've have been keeping an eye on it ever since. They seem to have finally worked out most of the bugs. I'm now running this instead of Mint and really enjoying it. With Ubuntu Studio I only had to add 4 applications after installation. Quite convenient for me! I imagine it is hardly different than Xubuntu other than the default themes and applications.

[Phytotron]

Well, I went ahead and installed Xubuntu.

Resizing icons worked to a degree, but the grid is still offset a bit, even more so on the vertical edges than horizontal, as you can see in this screenshot:

I'm not keeping those desktop icons; just for illustration. :)

BFD, but OCD.

Still have the misaligned sectors issue after resizing, but I'm not real clear on how to fix that. And from what I've read it may not really be fixable unless I reinstall Windows and get the numbers lined up from the beginning of the disk, and I'm not about to go through that hassle. They say not to worry about it if you don't notice a performance hit (what would you compare it to?), but you still know it's there!

Also ran into a documented and long-standing bug regarding the double-clicking of the window title bar—in my case to hide/minimize it. Apparently you can't use a low/fast double-click speed. Some say you have to go to Settings Editor > xsettings > Net and change DoubleClickTime to 400 to match dbl_click_time in xfwm4. But damn, 400 is so slow; I end up double-clicking things I don't want to, selecting text and whatnot. I was able to drop DoubleClickTime it to 240 and have it work, but for some reason it wouldn't stick. And that's still slow. I liked about 165-170 ms.

I dunno. Just another case of ridiculously amateurish work in Linux. Like, this shit was reported with the 10 series. And it's still there.

I've also had a little trouble with editing the application menu, but that's probably on me. I read the Help page, but it assumes you already know a lot of stuff. But for instance, I added a Firefox launcher to the main part of the menu, but somehow ended up with two entries for it in the Application Finder, though I didn't add anything to the Categories tab or whatever. Speaking of which, I see that there's like 5-6 different entries related to File Manager/Thunar, most hidden from the menu, only one displays in Application Finder, but only as 'File Manager,' not 'Thunar.' You can't search for Thunar. It's weird, dood.


Oh, also, have you had any issues with right-clicking? Like, it doesn't always hold or sometimes it'll actually select the top entry? I don't know whether that's Xubuntu or my mouse, but I don't think I noticed it happening in Ubuntu.

Anyway, heh. We'll see whether I stick with Xubuntu or not. I would like to, for reasons I've mentioned previously, but it remains to be seen how annoyed I get with the little things, heh. Like I said, at least *buntu distros are easy-peasy to install and set up.

Apparently you can disable a process named xfce4-volumed in "Settings Manager >> Sessions and Startup >> Application Autostart" (see attached) and this will eliminate all volume notifications for the panel app and media keys, it will not differentiate. Given your lack of hardware keys this seems like a good option.

Cool beans, that worked. Thank you, sir. Kinda weird that had its own startup entry, though. You sure it doesn't affect anything else?

But, what I was wondering is if it worked in the reverse. That is, when you press one of your volume keys, does it bring up both the slider and the notification, or just the notification? I would hope the latter, because I would like to get a keyboard with media keys myself.

Our recent banter in this thread caused me to look once again at Ubuntu Studio, billed as "Linux for Creative Humans." [eye roll] The distro switched to XFCE a few years ago and I've have been keeping an eye on it ever since. They seem to have finally worked out most of the bugs. I'm now running this instead of Mint and really enjoying it. With Ubuntu Studio I only had to add 4 applications after installation. Quite convenient for me! I imagine it is hardly different than Xubuntu other than the default themes and applications.

Neat. Have you found that the supposedly customized kernel has made any difference in the operation of those applications, or is the pre-bundling enough of an appeal?

[sinewav]

That is a mighty fine looking desktop wallpaper!

Resizing icons worked to a degree, but the grid is still offset a bit...

If you want to go full OCD you can look at this page for help. It requires you to edit a file in your home directory (and if it is not there, create it). You can adjust the space in-between the icons. With a little bit of math you should be able to get something close to perfect for your resolution.

But damn, 400 is so slow...

Pft, typical single-binder elitist. Yeah that is pretty messed up that they have dbl_click_time and double_click_time, neither of which seem to be the setting you adjust in the mouse utility.

Still have the misaligned sectors issue..

Not sure I would worry about it too much. Users like you and I are just loading programs/files into RAM. The misalignment might become a performance problem if your computer was also a server with a lot of read/write activity.

I've also had a little trouble with editing the application menu...

Yes I have noticed this dumb crap all the distributions are doing. They are using a lot of generic labels for things and placing items in multiple categories. My guess is this is part of some poorly considered UX decisions. I've had a few menu problems myself, but at least it is easier to make changes using the GUI. I dreaded opening a text editor to customize it.

Oh, also, have you had any issues with right-clicking?

Yep. Though that was using XFCE 4.6 and I haven't seen it happen in 4.10 -- yet.

Kinda weird that had its own startup entry, though. You sure it doesn't affect anything else?...But, what I was wondering is if it worked in the reverse. That is, when you press one of your volume keys, does it bring up both the slider and the notification, or just the notification?

Disabling xfce-volumed seems to disable the media keys as well. But then again, do you need both? I find that moving the notification to another part of the screen removes the annoyance. So either you keep volumed enabled to use media keys and see notifications, or disable volumed and loose both in exchange for slider-only.

Have you found that the supposedly customized kernel has made any difference in the operation of those applications, or is the pre-bundling enough of an appeal?

Meh, slightly better performance for audio applications, but nothing to write home about. The software bundle coupled with XFCE is the juice.

I know this desktop stuff is a hassle, but to me XFCE blows away Windows 7 and 8. Can't compete with MAC though, but then again, not much can when it comes to merging pretty and functional UI's.

[/dev/null]

Gentoo doesnt have this problem. Only binary distros do.

[Phytotron]

That is a mighty fine looking desktop wallpaper!

Well, here ya go. Color it to your liking. Since that screenshot I've also flipped it vertically. You'll notice that in the original there's a darker strip along the bottom, and I find that more suited to the top with a top panel.

If you want to go full OCD you can look at this page for help.

Mister Resources on the spot again, heh. I probably won't fool with it, especially considering maths. I don't usually keep anything on the desktop, anyway, especially with the way the desktop works in *buntu (Linux in general?), how it's almost like a separate volume or something—the way you can't drag and drop stuff between it and the file manager, but only copy. What's up with that? But even when I was using Macs I usually kept it clear, only using it for stuff I was actively working on for quick access.

Pft, typical single-binder elitist.

Har. Well, I've set it to 250 and I guess I'll settle with that.

Not sure I would worry about it too much. Users like you and I are just loading programs/files into RAM. The misalignment might become a performance problem if your computer was also a server with a lot of read/write activity.

Yeah, from what I've seen it seems to mostly affect write speed.

Oh, also, have you had any issues with right-clicking?

Yep. Though that was using XFCE 4.6 and I haven't seen it happen in 4.10 -- yet.

I think what's happening is that sometimes the left-click is getting activated along with the right-click, and what it does after just depends on where my cursor is placed at the time. So, if I right-click and the cursor is off the menu, then it left-clicks away and the menu disappears. If instead the menu drops so that the cursor falls a bit over the first entry, it'll click that first entry.

Whether that's the mouse itself or something else, I don't know how to know.

Disabling xfce-volumed seems to disable the media keys as well. But then again, do you need both?

No, and it's fine like this without media keys. What I was wondering is if—with that setting enabled, and when pressing a media key—does it display only the notification or does it also show the slider menu. Eventually I want to get a keyboard with media keys, and would hope it only displays the notification when pressing a volume key.

I know this desktop stuff is a hassle, but to me XFCE blows away Windows 7 and 8. Can't compete with MAC though, but then again, not much can when it comes to merging pretty and functional UI's.

Yeah, that's pretty much my position. I'll take an Ubuntu distro over Windows any day, but OSX blows them both out of the water. But now that I've sort of committed myself to playing all these Windows games, I reckon I'll be sticking with this for 2-3 more years, despite some of the aggravations, until I've played through that backlog of games and the computer slips into just plain obsolescence. Then maybe I'll return to OSX, if finances and whatnot allow.

I will say there are a couple advantages Linux/Ubuntu has over OSX. One is the way applications are handled, with the centralized repositories, automatic categorization, and centralized updates. Very sensible and handy. Is that a Linux-wide thing or just the Ubuntu-based distros?

Then I suppose there is the GUI customization—although, obviously a few Ubuntu-based distros are pretty locked down (Unity, Elementary, Deepin). And even the more customizable ones still restrict you to whatever bits and pieces are available, of course—that goes both for the functional elements as well as cosmetics. With respect to the latter, I've been browsing XFCE-look and there's really very little originality or variety; same is true for KDE-look. OS 9 with its third-party Appearance Themes and Kaleidoscope still utterly destroy any modern OS in that regard. Just look at those!


Well, I have run into a handful more issues since my last post, but I won't bother listing them at this point.

[sinewav]

Well, here ya go. Color it to your liking.

Excellent, thanks.

I don't usually keep anything on the desktop, anyway, especially with the way the desktop works in *buntu (Linux in general?), how it's almost like a separate volume or something—the way you can't drag and drop stuff between it and the file manager, but only copy. What's up with that?

Yes, I am the same way with my desktop. Seeing lots of icons gives me anxiety. And yeah, the drag/copy crap pisses me off to no end.

What I was wondering is if—with that setting enabled, and when pressing a media key—does it display only the notification or does it also show the slider menu. Eventually I want to get a keyboard with media keys, and would hope it only displays the notification when pressing a volume key.

It will only show the notification, not the slider. The only way to see the slider is to click it with the cursor.

I will say there are a couple advantages Linux/Ubuntu has over OSX. One is the way applications are handled, with the centralized repositories, automatic categorization, and centralized updates. Very sensible and handy. Is that a Linux-wide thing or just the Ubuntu-based distros?

Yes, it seems most of the bigger distributions do things similarly. Of course, because this is Linux, there are many more that just make you do everything from scratch, including installing, configuring, and adding archives to the package manager.

With respect to the latter, I've been browsing XFCE-look and there's really very little originality or variety; same is true for KDE-look.

Oh god yes, xfce-look is horrible. I would totally go nuts adding assets to that site (like I did with moviepacks, etc. here), but making GTK compatible themes, any themes really, is a super PITA. One guy tried to make a theme editor for xfce but apparently it was very buggy and eventually abandoned.

Everything is still a work in progress. I'm always amazed how so much of the GNU/Linux world is created by volunteers and students. I am content.

[Phytotron]

Good grief.

So, I've been having the issue with tearing in videos only (no screen tearing otherwise with "synchronize drawing to the vertical blank" enabled). This is apparently a known issue with XFCE. So I was searching around for fixes, coming upon a few different ones. A bunch of results were related to installing some alternate compositor called Compton; screw that. Another fix was to install this libsdl1.2 thing; a regression apparently, but probably the preferred method. (Much as installing some old version of gstreamer to get mp4's to work; wtf.)

Others were talking about adjusting some settings in an NVIDIA control panel; I only have the Intel Integrated so not relevant. However, that reminded me of the Intel Graphics Installer. So I figured I would go ahead and install that, not thinking it would necessarily do anything about the tearing; just to go ahead and do it. But when I went to download the 64 bit version, Gdebi says "Error: Wrong Architecture." What? So I check the 32 bit version and it's accepted. No way. So I found some command uname -m, and sure enough, somehow my dumbass installed the 32 bit version of Xubuntu. How could I have done that?

So, I grab the installer disc I made and stick it in to look. And...nothing. No spinup. I tried other discs, DVD's, CD's, nothing. Xubuntu apparently recognizes the disc drive...

I dunno if serial number matters, but I blurred it anyway.

...and yet, no change to this when a disc is inserted. Note also that it says "read only," even though it can write.

Blah. So, I guess I'll go over to Windows to make a new installer disc with the 64 bit version, reinstall, and start over from there—assuming that Xubuntu is at fault here, and my drive didn't just suddenly up and quit working within the last week. Stupidconfoundedgrumblegrumble.

[Phytotron]

Grrr, you gotta be kidding me. It is the drive. Won't spin up under Windows, either. How the hell does it just stop working when I used it to install just over a week ago, and haven't touched it since? Ugh. No idea what to do.

[sinewav]

I believe all the fixes are tearing in XFCE are myths. I've never seen one actually work. I spent several days on it with no luck.

How the hell does it just stop working when I used it to install just over a week ago, and haven't touched it since? Ugh. No idea what to do.

Ouch! Sounds like the drive just went kaput! It happens.

[Phytotron]

I believe all the fixes are tearing in XFCE are myths. I've never seen one actually work. I spent several days on it with no luck.

Yeah, I tried...

Code: Select all

sudo apt-add-repository ppa:timo-jyrinki/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install libsdl1.2debian

...no dice.

Makes it kind of a peculiar choice as the default interface for Ubuntu Studio, doesn't it? As for myself, I/we watch enough video on or from this thing (including HDMI->TV) that I'm not gonna put up with it. It's a shame because I do prefer Xubuntu's interface, aside from the local menus. My concern is that this video tearing will be present in other distros as well.

Ouch! Sounds like the drive just went kaput! It happens.

Blarg. It's only two years old and about the only thing I've used it for is burning and running these live/install discs. Maybe around 30 uses ever. Unbelievable. Apparently they're a fairly cheap replacement, if what I've searched here is right: ASUS 24X DVD Burner. But I would still have to find someone to do the actual replacement; I'm not gonna attempt that myself. That means either a shop or one of a couple geeks whom I only know second-hand, which might be a little awkward to ask. So since I rarely use it, I think for the time being I'll just make a bootable USB drive for installing Linux—assuming my computer isn't one that dislikes booting from USB's.

I think what's happening is that sometimes the left-click is getting activated along with the right-click....

Actually, I think it might be the right-click sometimes registering twice, and I think it's the mouse itself. But as with the keyboard, I've been wanting to replace it anyway.

[sinewav]

Makes it kind of a peculiar choice as the default interface for Ubuntu Studio, doesn't it?

Hadn't thought about that but you are totally right. Though I think anyone serious about audio & video would quickly realize Linux is a joke so I doubt anyone cares.

...assuming my computer isn't one that dislikes booting from USB's.

Hopefully. I haven't burned a Live CD since my first one three years ago. USB rules. It boots waaaaaaaaaay faster too.

[Phytotron]

Ugh. So, I got a thumb drive for doing a new installation. I first went ahead and tried Xubuntu again (the correct 64-bit version this time), but installing Compton up front to see if that might fix the video tearing. Nope. Bummer, because I was mostly liking it otherwise.

So, what distro? As I mentioned, I do like the minimalist interface of Xubuntu, and found that I could get something similar from Mint, so I've installed that tonight, just the regular Cinnamon edition.

Well, guess what, video tearing! Now, in this case it's only while in fullscreen, but still. I did find this workaround, and that seems to have eliminated the tearing, but...I dunno.

[to be continued]

Hadn't thought about that but you are totally right. Though I think anyone serious about audio & video would quickly realize Linux is a joke so I doubt anyone cares.

True, but the Ubuntu Studio folks are still trying to push it as viable, so you'd think they wouldn't have blundered like that. Then again, Linux people....

[sinewav]

Yes the tearing is such a pain in the ass. Part of the blame falls on video chip manufacturers who refuse to or reluctantly work with Linux developers. But yeah, there should be way better video on Linux systems. No real excuse at this point.

There are a few other hassles I've run into with Mint as well. Like, apparently there's no way to set a compose key (I need my em-dashes, damnit!) except by doing something like this? What? And...I've forgotten what else.

You can set a compose key in XFCE right in the keyboard settings. (I know you are on cinnamon now.) I got in the habit of typing unicode numbers instead, which is not nearly as intuitive but my laptop is a little short on extra buttons. If you have never entered a unicode number before, you hold down Ctrl+Shift while pressing u2014 for em dash.

————————————some em dashes!————————————————————

I've been meaning to do this, so I just now converted my Rt-Alt key to compose. Thanks for the reminder!

[Phytotron]

Yes the tearing is such a pain in the ass. Part of the blame falls on video chip manufacturers who refuse to or reluctantly work with Linux developers.

Maybe in some cases, but I just have the Intel Integrated, which is well supported out of the box. Although, I've yet to figure out if there's an Intel graphics controller for Linux, with which, for example, one could set vsync options.

You can set a compose key in XFCE right in the keyboard settings. (I know you are on cinnamon now.) I got in the habit of typing unicode numbers instead, which is not nearly as intuitive but my laptop is a little short on extra buttons. If you have never entered a unicode number before, you hold down Ctrl+Shift while pressing u2014 for em dash.

Ack, you caught me in the middle of an edit, heh. Yeah, I refuse to do that unicode crap. Mac and Linux have it right. I had set a compose key very early on back when I first installed Ubuntu a couple years ago. Then when I installed Xubuntu, as you note it's actually right out in the open in the keyboard settings. However, with Mint it's a little buried. I had gone looking and just plain overlooked it. Under the 'Keyboard layouts' tab there's an 'Options' button in the bottom corner I overlooked, and in there you find the option to set it—which I believe is the same as Ubuntu, I had just forgotten. Doh.

By the way, isn't it funny how XFCE has more front-end appearance customization options than Mint/Cinnamon?

Anyway, I guess I'll stick with this for awhile and see how it goes. At the moment, though, I'm up later than I usually mean to be and me eyes are all bloodshot, so off to bed. Hasta pasta.