2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

[Titanoboa]

Also, what should I script the IRC bot in? I've not written one before.

So you're ignoring the spreadsheet completely, no comment at all? If you want to spend many hours making an irc bot, I'm not going to stop you. But did you even look at it? It does everything we need it to, as far as I know, and it gives the captains a much better overview than an irc bot would.

[Venijn]

If we encourage captains to include one or two newcomers into their teams, it may allow for the attraction to fortress without compromising a teams chances of winning (read: Everyone is at the same disadvantage).

I disagree. There have been many many many occasions where some n00b has entered the server, and wrecked the game for everyone. On the other hand, some actually listen to criticism and take it the right way, and begin to try for their team. If they are new to fort, they won't understand the players, the desire to win, etc etc

Some players new to fort are very very good, others aren't.

I don't agree with that point. I still maintain that the FFA (although it is a nice gesture) is not ideal for getting new players into fort.

[orion]

so accurate venom, the only guy who I didnt know was Rufio and he didnt show. as i already said, FFA is a bigger pickup

[takburger]

so accurate venom, the only guy who I didnt know was Rufio and he didnt show. as i already said, FFA is a bigger pickup

FFA2 was, FFA1 had more new blood than that one. As it was more advertised and also it was a time where there was new people in thanks to phoenix and oops and a crowded CTWF

[sinewav]

So you're ignoring the spreadsheet completely, no comment at all?...[D]id you even look at it? It does everything we need it to, as far as I know, and it gives the captains a much better overview than an irc bot would.

Reposted for this page in the thread:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... li=1#gid=0

The spreadsheet is very nice, but the IRC bot can address a few other issues like excess chatter and keeping the picks in order. Maybe we can use both together? We should use every tool at our disposal until we have something functional.

Also, the reason why Fortress doesn't grow is because Armagetron doesn't grow. Historically, a reliable percentage of total players in the game play Fortress. That total number appears to be shrinking. The best way to grow Fort is to grow the game, but having something like the FFA will be valuable if the game does start to grow. And to all these people who are like "FFA is just a big pickup," well, go soak your head. Pickup is where a lot of people went from being good at Fortress to amazing at it. And next time you are racing to !add fort6 so you don't miss the next match just remind yourself that "pickup sucks," you hypocrite.

[delinquent]

Also, what should I script the IRC bot in? I've not written one before.

So you're ignoring the spreadsheet completely, no comment at all? If you want to spend many hours making an irc bot, I'm not going to stop you. But did you even look at it? It does everything we need it to, as far as I know, and it gives the captains a much better overview than an irc bot would.

Forgive me, I forgot that you made one. I'm likely going to use the spreadsheet to display the results of the picking during the meeting, but the bot, like sinewav says, is to address the organisation and excess chatter.

So, the bot must do the following:

Following input by the administrators, the bot denies all speakers in the channel voice privileges.
The administrator uses the command "!startpick", after which the captains must use "!ready".
The bot then displays a list of available players, and grants voice to the first captain to pick.
The first captain uses "!pick <playername>" to assign the player to that captain. The bot displays a list of that captain's team.
The bot then removes voice privilege from the first captain, and grants it to the second, and so forth.
At the end of the meeting, the bot displays a readout of each captain and their team, for the purpose of adding it to the spreadsheet.
The spreadsheet is then used to display the teams to the captains, and any discrepancies are discussed.
The spreadsheet is copied to the wiki.

If we encourage captains to include one or two newcomers into their teams, it may allow for the attraction to fortress without compromising a teams chances of winning (read: Everyone is at the same disadvantage).

I disagree. There have been many many many occasions where some n00b has entered the server, and wrecked the game for everyone. On the other hand, some actually listen to criticism and take it the right way, and begin to try for their team. If they are new to fort, they won't understand the players, the desire to win, etc etc

Some players new to fort are very very good, others aren't.

I don't agree with that point. I still maintain that the FFA (although it is a nice gesture) is not ideal for getting new players into fort.

Aye, I think it could swing either way tbh. Lets see how it plays out.

----------------------------------------

Further considerations:
Captains can use "!myteam" at any point in #armagetron.tourneys or via PM with the bot to display their team.
Captains can use "!pickorder" to see the order in which captains are picking.
Captains can use "!allteams" to display the status of all the current teams.
Captains can use "!autopickon" to automatise picking if they wish, and "!autopickoff" to disable this feature.
Anyone can use "!status <playername>" to display the current status of a player.
The bot will automatically start pinging a captain if they do not respond within ~60 seconds. This is to encourage captains to be ready for their turn.

[delinquent]

Double post, apologies

[takburger]

So the spreadsheet is only used to show the end result of team? (which is also put into the wiki). So it is redundant and therefore, not useful.


The benefit of a spreadsheet or any kind of working paper is to be able for a captain to see who is remaining to the pick.

Thats what the bot do not show. That is also what a well done javascript could show on a website.

IMHO the best is to have a picking phase handled by a javascript method on a generated URL.

[delinquent]

Personally I like to avoid javascript where possible, but you may be right.

[Titanoboa]

Indeed, it is intended to use during the picks. That's the whole point. It works like this:

1.You put the captain's number next to the picked player's name, with the press of three buttons: (1) click on the cell. (2) type the number. (3) hit enter. Everything updates automatically (with colors and everything, hooray!).
2.There's no step 2.

Another benefit: You'll always know exactly whose turn it is to pick. Next to the captains & their listed teams, it says how many they've picked. The person updating the spreadsheet, as well as others viewing, will notice if something goes wrong.

Or you can write a bot that does the same thing and confuses everyone, plus all the bugs. I mean, nobody's going to stop you.

As for muting the channel etc, there's really no need. Have a couple of channel op's and voice the captains. If a single person is disrupting the flow, kick them. If it really does get out of hand, which I doubt, you can mute the channel with a single command (not something I'd write a bot for), then only op's and captains can chat all of a sudden.

Ok, I've now spent more time writing posts about the spreadsheet than I spent creating it (not really, but almost). Take it or leave it, I just thought it'd be the most practical way.

[delinquent]

I'm considering both mechanisms, believe me, but I'm more inclined to use the bot as it gives me a pet project to play with. Plus, there's also the fact that I couldn't see the spreadsheet when I tried to open it, although I could blindly select cells and then see what they contained.

Anyway, another point regarding the spreadsheet is it's versatility. You might consider it potentially being used as a notepad of sorts in other amateur tournaments, so even if I refrain from using it altogether it may not be an entirely wasted effort.

Bah. I feel guilty now, screw you!

[Titanoboa]

Haha don't. It was easy to make it. I'm not trying to guilt you into using it

[Hoax]

Pickup is where a lot of people went from being good at Fortress to amazing at it.

That's rather subjective


New players are gained or lost the first time they play, a tournament isn't going to have any effect on getting more players but it will help keep the ones that stay.


Instead of this becoming Delinquent's xmas puppy, why not make this style of fortress tourney bimonthly & alternate it with the ladle? Fff, brawl, ffa..all went down well and it gets people playing with others as well as giving everyone playing a chance to reach the latter stages.

Yeah that's right drop the ladle every other month for a 'big pickup tournament'. Volunteer captains & 1 sub for each team (that gets to play). Picking hardly requires a bot but whatever is simple and sustainable. Wiki for viewability, stats and accountable editing just like the ladle.

[Magi]

I think Hoax's idea would also give increased value to ladle too, instead of it being an every month kind of thing, I think people will want to try harder to win it if it appears less

[delinquent]

The eventual plan is for FFA to become more regular than it currently is, but I'm leaving such a large amount of time because I want to make sure the organisational aspects are entirely sorted. If that happens long before the current timeframe cycles, I'll be more than willing to move FFA3 forward by a substantial number of months.

I'm already expecting to move it forward to June/Julyish.