Behavior folks... and the game.

[WallyWallWhackr]

Just to let you know, the behavior of those on that server at that time, and YOUR subsequent behavior (you know who you are) is about as lame as this game has become. I don't need some twit telling me how to play, much less with center_message. How old are you?

As for the game... Now, the only players getting points are the 180 exploit retards. Must be time to go back to the older code and FORK IT!

CLIENT SIDE REPORTS POSITION TO SERVER, NOT the other way around.

Until you fix that, the game will never work right on the net. If it already set up that way, then it isn't really a net capable game.

Sorry that the truth is so sad. Z-man, I applaud you on your original effort, and the entire idea, not so sure about at least one member of the rest of the crew though.

Particularly when the self important idiots ban folks from the master server.

Some tiger... NOT! Errr... Panzer... spelled PANZY!

You'll likely not see me much again... if ever... the FRIGGIN BOTS and the REAL open highway provide better gameplay that some of these dolts.

The newbies are always enjoyable, I respect them... BUT these wanna be leetists or whatever they call themselves need a clue. A server operator does not always a brainy person make. Like I care what he does.

[philippeqc]

Hi WallyWallWhackr,

Your complaints were a bit difficult to read. I'm sure you are pointing to some problems, but it would greatly help us if you could clearly and objectively identify them.

IIRC, the rubber behavior has the following history:
- 260: Rubber is somewhat fps based. People with more powerfull computer can manage better grinds.
- 27x: In an attemp to fix this, a new rubber behavior is developed. While it address the "people with better computer play better" problem, a new one is introduced. Rubber gets too "soft".
- cvs: z-man set up a server with the new rubber engine, but through carefull manipulation of the different rubber settings, recreate an effect that (I at least) is considered similar to the old behavior (z-man, did you post any result of that analysis? And the setting used?).
(I'm sorry on the inacuracies in my rubber history, it is not a topic that I've followed very actively)

As for the method to accuratly transmit position in the game, why dont you do a quick technological demo? It would be easy to set up a server with it and ask people to connect with your patched client and see how it fix the problem in a real world context.

thanks for your comments

-ph

[Tank Program]

I'm sorry Wally, but I too am having a few difficulties following your comments. Could you please elaborate?

[Terridon]

Wally..
Suicide Blonde here
you where camping.. whish means you where in a box, and didn't try to get out.. neither when you where told in normal chat, nor when the center-message came.. you where kicked pretty long after that.. when you still didn't do anything to get out.
you have all right in world to play like you want.. but if you brake the few simple rules.. then you can't whine when you after 2 warnings get kicked
or.. shouldnt..

[Z-Man]

I can't really comment on the personal player vs. server admin stuff, I always feel that it's the server admin's right to rule the server as he/she sees fit and that players who disagree should switch the server...

But I can comment on the syncing protocol. Currently (CVS), it goes as follows:
- client sends turn position and time (and bookkeeping data) to the server
- server tries to execute the turn at exactly the position the client gave, but (and this is new in CVS, 0.2.7.1 still ignores it) not 0.1 seconds (configurable, of course) earlier or later than the time given by the client.

Also, in case the cycle on the server already overshot the target when the command arrives (because of packet loss), the turn is made immediately.

Since 0.2.7.1 does not yet honor the time of turns, it has problems when you grind: before you turn, your position almost does not change any more and the server will probably let you turn too early. That's what's giving you the boost forward when you grind and let's you lag slide when you turn right after the grind.

Granted, there may still be bugs in the implementation (always on the hunt for them), but I think the basic concept has a good playability/security mix.

Phillipe apready described the rubber evolution quite well.
There are are two rubber test servers, one is called "0.2.7.1 rubber test server" (offline right now, I suspect Jonathan killed it in one of his experiments again...), there I test changing the rubber behaviour of vanilla 0.2.7.1 simply with setting a negative CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE. And "CVS Test Server 2 (No fun here)" runs CVS code where some anti-180 measurements are in place (offline as well, I'll investigate): basically, the new code amounts to increased rubber consumption right after a turn.

[Jonathan]

AFAIK I didn't take anything down, but a few days ago I had some bots on the hard rubber test.

[Z-Man]

Allright, then it was the other way round. I shut down the CVS test server accidentally when I recompiled it form another window and you killed the 0.2.7.1 server (NP, that's what test servers are for, I'll restart it again in the debugger) when you logged out.

[Lucifer]

But was it disrupting camping?

Here's a recent example nemo and I were recently in. People were leaving quickly, and I thought nemo and I were all that was left. So we started screwing around, having quit fighting. So this guy says "Campers!" and reminds us he was there. So feeling bad for making the guy wait, I suicided, and nemo suicided too (I assume for the same reason ).

Aha, but as soon as the round started again, and the guy went to fight nemo, I started screwing around again, because that's what I wanted to do. I just made sure I didn't disrupt the round and I went and fought when it was time. (or suicided, I was doing some pretty dumb things)

Anyway, I'm happy to see that camping is a valid tactic on Breakfast in Hell. When you get the 1 minute warning and you're winning, you know how it goes. I've camped when there was only two of us left and I was up by a point over the other guy, you know, instead of risking the match by fighting. Hence I say it's a valid tactic now, where matches are timed. Not saying it's not dirty, just that it's valid.

[WallyWallWhackr]

I'm sorry Wally, but I too am having a few difficulties following your comments. Could you please elaborate?

Aren't YOU the asshole that clipped my access to the master server?

If so, what I have to say to you, I cannot say in this forum, *$#@head!

However, as I stated before, I no longer give a rat's ass.

[WallyWallWhackr]

Wally..
Suicide Blonde here
you where camping.. whish means you where in a box, and didn't try to get out.. neither when you where told in normal chat, nor when the center-message came.. you where kicked pretty long after that.. when you still didn't do anything to get out.
you have all right in world to play like you want.. but if you brake the few simple rules.. then you can't whine when you after 2 warnings get kicked
or.. shouldnt..

Look, you ignorant twit, YOU have ZERO capacity to assess gameplay!
I don't care if you are the author's whore, you are still overtly stupid.

Your remarks on the server, and your subsequent remarks here prove that. You are exactly what I called you on the server, and I was NOT kicked, dipshit, I LEFT. Your retarded center message in the middle of gameplay makes you even MORE retarded. Look the word up, twitso facto.

You are an idiot to assume "rules", and an even bigger one to enforce any such rule on a public server that does NOT list them ON THE SERVER! Get a clue, Dingus Broad. Nearly NO players of such a SIMPLE game visits some retarded web page to review rules! If you do not POST them ON the game server, you cannot enforce them in good conscience. Got clue? Let alone the fact that YOUR retarded interpretations about the way that OTHERS play the game are just that, WHOLLY RETARDED!

That makes you a Holey Retard, Battwit!

If one is boxed and one waits for the other retards to die, one can get an out. It is not "camping", it is last resort strategy, and you nor anyone else has the right to assess it. You, however, are too F*$king retarded to get that FACT. This is obvious by your descriptions of OTHER people's gameplay, which YOU have no right to assess, particularly since you sport a sub 40 IQ. Get screwed... Too late.

[WallyWallWhackr]

But was it disrupting camping?

Here's a recent example nemo and I were recently in. People were leaving quickly, and I thought nemo and I were all that was left. So we started screwing around, having quit fighting. So this guy says "Campers!" and reminds us he was there. So feeling bad for making the guy wait, I suicided, and nemo suicided too (I assume for the same reason ).

Aha, but as soon as the round started again, and the guy went to fight nemo, I started screwing around again, because that's what I wanted to do. I just made sure I didn't disrupt the round and I went and fought when it was time. (or suicided, I was doing some pretty dumb things)

Anyway, I'm happy to see that camping is a valid tactic on Breakfast in Hell. When you get the 1 minute warning and you're winning, you know how it goes. I've camped when there was only two of us left and I was up by a point over the other guy, you know, instead of risking the match by fighting. Hence I say it's a valid tactic now, where matches are timed. Not saying it's not dirty, just that it's valid.

I think that the entire idea of ANY of you (other players) assessing another's gameplay is LAME, at best. ESPECIALLY during gameplay. If you are out of the round, you wait it out. It's THAT SIMPLE.

There was one idiot that was always acusing people of "running" when in fact, turning away from a fight with someone going three times your speed is the RIGHT way to survive, gain speed, and return to fight again, perhaps when the other player is slower, with perhaps winning results. ANY dope can see that far into this game. Except that guy, apparently.

[Lucifer]

I think that the entire idea of ANY of you (other players) assessing another's gameplay is LAME, at best. ESPECIALLY during gameplay. If you are out of the round, you wait it out. It's THAT SIMPLE.

Pardon me, there is such a thing as "good sportsmanship". There are penalties in sports for "bad gameplay", why shouldn't there be here?

There was one idiot that was always acusing people of "running" when in fact, turning away from a fight with someone going three times your speed is the RIGHT way to survive, gain speed, and return to fight again, perhaps when the other player is slower, with perhaps winning results. ANY dope can see that far into this game. Except that guy, apparently.

Hmmm, not necessarily. I love killing people that are going 3+ times my own speed. They always get so surprised....

In any case, there's a difference between turning away to build up speed to meet the guy, turning away to set a trap, and turning away because you'd rather run until he screws up and hits your wall. I do all three fairly regularly, come to think of it. (Actually, I don't run hoping the other guy screws up, I usually decide not to take him yet and turn around and look for something fun to do in those situations. Minor semantic difference)

In any case, it sounds like you have a valid complaint, but there are a few things you haven't considered. For one, where exactly are admins supposed to put the rules of the server? (I'd like to point out that the reason I don't let other people in-game admin my own servers is precisely because of problems like this, they always wind up more trouble than they're worth) For another, there is a common set of manners generally accepted, some players enforce them more harshly than others, but the common set is, well, common. And it includes "Don't camp, don't run (it's a variation of camping), don't disrupt other people" and so forth.

Yes, if you're stuck in a box and you decide to maze in the hopes that you'll get out and fight some more, that's not camping. And yes, there are some players that don't like to see that. They always seem to be the ones who are the most shocked when people maze seriously because they can't maze themselves. And no, these problems don't come up very often on the servers I play on anyway.

[Z-Man]

Calm down, Wally. Nobody shut you out from the master server. The master server is run by me and I never ever blocked any access to it. If you were shut out, probably everybody else was at that time, too. The server is down from time to time.

[Tank Program]

I'm sorry Wally, but I too am having a few difficulties following your comments. Could you please elaborate?

Aren't YOU the asshole that clipped my access to the master server?

If so, what I have to say to you, I cannot say in this forum, *$#@head!

However, as I stated before, I no longer give a rat's ass.

I refer to the statement that z-man has already made. However wronged you may feel, it is not in the clear to go and cuss out the people who you think should be blamed.

[Lackadaisical]

Hmmm, not necessarily. I love killing people that are going 3+ times my own speed. They always get so surprised....

Lucifer I'm not sure but that's really only possible on servers like swampland/goshdarn with limited wall length, where people need to make the box as small as possible to kill someone by sheer speed alone (and which brings alot of extra risks). On servers with unlimited wall length (like tigers original) they could just make a bigger box around you, seal it and run away because they don't have to worry about the wall dissapearing after a while. And yeah it's kinda hard if not impossible to kill someone you cant even get close to.

Oh and people who dont dare to try to get inside a campers box shouldnt complain about people who dont dare to try to get outside.