Pickup: Destroying fort since 2010!

[Word]

but same happens when a clan war starts

we and sp just had a few matches in Z-Man's server, 4v4. That didn't disrupt the game that was going on in G5s because the server was still full after we left.

[Titanoboa]

Yeah Word, there will always be exceptions. Jip even said that it doesn't even happen every time the pickup starts. Were you trying to make a point?

[Word]

Well, since i think that pickups disrupt ongoing matches more than clanwars do because they "steal" up to 80% of the players in the server (provided that it's full), it could be useful to reduce the number of player spots (e.g. 4v4 instead of 6v6 or what it's currently set to). That would be easier than writing a script or something like that. People will say that this won't allow them to show off great strategies, but they can do the same things in regular fort. Pickups were meant to be more exclusive than authed fortress (Hello!), so this doesn't even clash with the original intention.

[Jip]

Well, since i think that pickups disrupt ongoing matches more than clanwars do because they "steal" up to 80% of the players in the server (provided that it's full), it could be useful to reduce the number of player spots (e.g. 4v4 instead of 6v6 or what it's currently set to). That would be easier than writing a script or something like that. People will say that this won't allow them to show off great strategies, but they can do the same things in regular fort.

You can either sign up for 4v4 or 6v6 - both available.

[dariv]

Killed 2 games in G5s and even a sumo today for me. I can't be bothered with all the hassle just for an organised 6v6, which is not even organised when defenders randomly give up or players refuse to sweep (you know who you are).

Not worth the effort for me, and if 12 out of 18 people leave the G5 server, then I'll leave as well, to play another game.

[INW]

There are tons of servers up for fortress.

It seems G5's is the only server people go to.

There is never an American server with people in it. It seems most Europeans these days don't want to play a casual game in a U.S. server because they will lag.

There are quite a few good U.S. server. I think most "foreigners" just aren't used to what the rest get and think, "Hey! Why play in a laggy server when there will always be a game over here!"

[Concord]

I don't like pickup, but I don't think it's destroying fortress.

[compguygene]

Well, let me restate my position. I don't think that pickup is destroying Fortress. I don't think G5's being authentication-only is destroying Fortress. I do think that the actual gameplay, as in the servers people choose to play in, the choices to play pickup games, etc. has contributed in a larger picture to take Fortress into a place of being an "Elite" game mode. That is to say, the barrier to "get into" playing Fortress has been set rather higher than it was in the past. I know that many of you have seen that the real growth in the number of active players and active teams has not really been much in the last 2 years. I think that the "Elite" nature of this has really contributed to this.
Let me ask you this. How many of you have even cared about bringing a new player or clan into Fortress? Does this even matter anymore? I do play a mixture of every game there is in Armagetron. A lot of players have tried Fortress, and have all the skills to truly excel at it, but have told me, they don't like it. So, I ask them, why? Invariably their answers reflect the "elitist" nature that the game has become. We have our "Pro" servers. We have our mysterious "pickup games". What we don't have is an active Fortress server that anybody regularly plays in that is "noob friendly".
If you doubt that there is any pent-up demand for this, please consider the following. On several occasions, I have found Fortress n00bs playing in one of the Fortress Cafe tournament servers. When joining, and they saw that I knew how to play, they asked me to help them learn. I also, on a few occasions, have started playing in said servers to see if n00bs would come. If the community would be willing to actually play in someplace other than just G5's, I would gladly put up a server just for that purpose, to attract new Fortress players, and have more "friendly" matches. The real question is, has the community become too "elite" to do this? Or, does the community see the need that I see? If you see my viewpoint, and want to make Fortress less "elite" then this is the thread to talk about it, now is the time.

[Hoax]

I've been in all situations,
-Pickup emptying a server - Annoying. Solution: Add up yourself next time or go do something else
But wait, that means pickup is bad? No because pickup games also reach near starting point and then people change their mind and stay in "G5's", removing themselves in irc
-Not having time to commit to a pickup match - Too bad. More often than not there are a few people in fortress anyway. If not you have plenty of other options and after all, you don't have long to play anyway
-I've also not been on irc and didn't want to use the web client either, yet when checking the server browser the only fort game was pickup. Bad times I went into a corner and cried

Furthermore the pickup rules even now state that you shouldn't go around suggesting a game in an attempt to keep 'public' games running.

Which also leads on to the point that pickup games are open to anyone, all you have to do is type a command in irc. The website even has a browser based app where you can do so. Anyone complaining that it is too complicated has no excuse.

Yes they are more competitive, they're also only 6v6 and yes they are also pretty much ruined when your defender drops out for whatever reason and no one is around to substitute.

So, coming from someone who actually plays, pickup is not destroying fort. It is a nice option to have avaliable.


Lastly compguy how are you coming to these assumptions?
Since the pickup channel was relaunched early 2010, around ladle 30, there has only been an increase in fortress teams & activity, based just on the ladle at least.
I think everyone doesn't know or actually forgets that the pickup channel died the first time from lack of interest
About your fears of fortress being 'elite'; why don't you set up a noob fortress server for all the noobs, then when they are ready to make the big step that is entering 'Mega Fortress PRO', they should be ready. They will also realise that there is nothing PRO about mega Fortress PRO at all, simply that it is called that because unlike it's de facto predecessor (DS Mega Fortress) you have to authenticate, rather humorous really..
Quite frankly I don't think I want to play with anyone who is too scared to join a server that says PRO or doesn't know how to authenticate. Did you read the bible because it looked easy?
Unfortunately this topic isn't actually about that but you're right that it could be the time, you just have to create a separate topic and keep a server up for longer than a couple of matches.

There are tons of servers up for fortress.
It seems G5's is the only server people go to.
There is never an American server with people in it. It seems most Europeans these days don't want to play a casual game in a U.S. server because they will lag.
There are quite a few good U.S. server. I think most "foreigners" just aren't used to what the rest get and think, "Hey! Why play in a laggy server when there will always be a game over here!"

Yeah definitely blame it on europeans being scared of lag (especially those nooby ones who are up late), instead of Americans not knowing anything better than to go to G5's for a fort game at 3amGMT, when there is more than one fortress server available that's located in the US


What a shame that hardly anyone will read this, I knew I should have gone for a snappy liz like one liner

[INW]

There are tons of servers up for fortress.
It seems G5's is the only server people go to.
There is never an American server with people in it. It seems most Europeans these days don't want to play a casual game in a U.S. server because they will lag.
There are quite a few good U.S. server. I think most "foreigners" just aren't used to what the rest get and think, "Hey! Why play in a laggy server when there will always be a game over here!"

Yeah definitely blame it on europeans being scared of lag (especially those nooby ones who are up late), instead of Americans not knowing anything better than to go to G5's for a fort game at 3amGMT, when there is more than one fortress server available that's located in the US


What a shame that hardly anyone will read this, I knew I should have gone for a snappy liz like one liner

The majority of Europeans respond to the question "Want to go play in <insert US fort server here>?" with "no thanks it is too laggy" proceed to any random Euro server. I am not blaming it on Europeans, I'm just wondering where the classic TX fortress games went (New York).

[Word]

If you'd just go to an American fort server and wait long enough you'll see that a lot of Euros will join you. The reason I and others prefer G5 (which isn't even the most lag-free EU fort server for me) is simply that it's the most popular one everyone checks on his server list so it usually gets full very fast.

[sinewav]

Hoax scored a perfect 10 on all points.

I have one thing to say about this "elite" nonsense though. Fortress isn't an exclusive club. Keep in mind one of the reasons Armagetron, especially Fortress, can be played hours a day for years on end - there is a constant challenge. You can't "beat the game." As you get better, the game gets better because your opponent is better too. And with enough players a skill gradient is created. However, as newer people are introduced over time the gradient grows larger because the people who have played the longest eventually become "masters." These experts got there through massive commitment to the game. No amount of evangelizing Fortress to new players will make the game better for top tier players. It's not even a matter of "I don't want to play with n00bs because it's boring." The skill gradient is an inseparable part of Fortress and similar players will naturally gravitate toward each other. The top players have no responsibility to promote the game, only to beat their opponent.

Besides, promoting Fortress is a totally different type of activity than playing the game. Those who like that sort of thing should certainly go do it if it makes them happy. But never, ever accuse the hardcore players of vanity for wanting to be the best.

[Agility]

Yea i don't do pick up games but i don't think they are hurting anything. Once noobs finally learn how to play the game and get used to g5 mega fortress "pro". they can always challenge themselves with ladles and pick up games. But i do think we should be more friendly to them.

[Titanoboa]

For the record, I miss a public NY server too. TX NY (before it became NJ) was and is still my favorite VPS ever so far. doesn't ID have a new server in NY? Why not host a server with G5's settings, except you don't have to login to play?

[Aiphaton]

compguygene just have a look at ct wild fort... A lot of „unknown" fort players and noobs just play there because the server name is coloured ... This is a place to get in contact with fortress and after playing some matches in wild fort some n00bs will have a look at other fort servers (G5). I think we don't need more fort servers or noob servers, there are enough allready.