The inside scoop to magglass1's hack - May 7, 2010

[epsy]

but isn't it legal because armagetron is open source?

No, what's illegal is releasing it without complying with the GPL(ie. keep credits, keep it GPL, give source, etc). Of course, that doesn't mean we'd be happy with that :)

To apparition: This is still "your" thread, the title of it being associated with that of your post. No need to rage-delete everything..

[Nelhybel]

so this dude basically has perfect turning like Punish but without the experience

You must've never seen him play I can promise you that what he turns perfectly along a tail, like he's attached to it with super blue - Punish, nor anybody with human reflexes, could pull it off

I'm familiar with CT reporting abuse to the ISP of players that cause trouble in their servers - not sure if this is reason enough, but imho...

Also Appa, I think you should consider reposting your conversation for future reference

[Z-Man]

Deleting your posts 'in protest of the merging' is extremely silly. Now nobody can see whether your protest is justified. I'll assume it isn't. Next time you don't agree with a merge, bring it up on IRC, and if you have good reasons not to have posted in the original thread, the merge can be reverted.

On topic, what epsy said. It doesn't matter a lot what license a game operates under, local modifications that increase your success are usually legal. Distributing those changes usually is not. Regardless, it's cheating, lame and should result in long, long bans, by IP masks if necessary. The reward for coding a good cheat should be having coded a good cheat and tested it and maybe get the autopilot code integrated as AI code into the main game, not to exploit it for griefing until the end of time. For reference, the IPs of magglass1 posts here were 128.113.146.214.

And before anyone asks, no, reliable detection of modified clients is not feasible. What the servers could do is collect movement correlation data; temporal and spatial coincidences between player turns could be harvested for signs of superhuman timing and reaction. /me goes research existing aimbot detection algorithms.

[apparition]

Deleting your posts 'in protest of the merging' is extremely silly. Now nobody can see whether your protest is justified. I'll assume it isn't. Next time you don't agree with a merge, bring it up on IRC, and if you have good reasons not to have posted in the original thread, the merge can be reverted.

Go ahead and assume it isn't justified because your silly mind fell into exactly the trap I figured this merge would create: that people would think I was protesting. Epsy put my post after someone whining about whether it's fair or not. I never protested it in the slightest and I'm not going to. I'm not going to tell you guys what to discuss, how to run your forums, or how to think about magglass1's innovation, but I'm going to control my posts to maintain the meaning behind them if I have to.

And posting magglass1's IP? Paranoid? He's not exactly hidden in the shadows.

[Nelhybel]

how to run your forums

I won't either, but I'm just gonna let you guys know that you're going to want to clean up on the bureaucratic way stuff is run around here - come November (or whenever the new movie comes out), a lot of independent and Disney-ran light cycle games will pop up, and their communities will look a lot more inviting than this one. It would be a shame to see this all whither away..

[Word]

and their communities will look a lot more inviting than this one.

not this again

[Thump]

I remember when I tried to get in the top 10 of CTWF, this dude was always playing with the perfect turning, I knew he was hacking! Anyways, this may sound really stupid because I have no knowledge of it, but isn't it legal because armagetron is open source?

Completely understand why everyone wants him banned, I'd want that too if he invaded the servers I play in. Maybe something can be done about this, lets avoid hackers getting into armagetron.. I hate games with a lot of unbanned cheaters.

my thoughts exactly.

True, Tron may be open source, however.. There is also an unwritten code of respect, of which most dedicated tronners possess.

Moral of the story? Anyone who actively uses mods/hacks in-game/ Simply has No respect for the players or for the developers and their purpose. Judging by many of his comments, this is proved to be true, hence he has no respect for those his bot meets on the grid(s). So mag, though i realize your see yourself 'above' the larger majority of those you play with, I think we would all sincerely appreciate if you confined your bot/hacks to private servers?

I have an idea..

You Hackers think your so BADASS? Lets build a server, with some very technical settings, and title it "Bot Wars". Everyone who wants to build a bot, in qualified to join the server (Other's can spectate) to see who has the BEST most BADASS bot. Keep the bots secluded to such like servers, and avoid using them in servers where bots are unwelcome.

Much appreciation, Thump

[Thump]

Deleting your posts 'in protest of the merging' is extremely silly. Now nobody can see whether your protest is justified. I'll assume it isn't. Next time you don't agree with a merge, bring it up on IRC, and if you have good reasons not to have posted in the original thread, the merge can be reverted.

Go ahead and assume it isn't justified because your silly mind fell into exactly the trap I figured this merge would create: that people would think I was protesting. Epsy put my post after someone whining about whether it's fair or not. I never protested it in the slightest and I'm not going to. I'm not going to tell you guys what to discuss, how to run your forums, or how to think about magglass1's innovation, but I'm going to control my posts to maintain the meaning behind them if I have to.

And posting magglass1's IP? Paranoid? He's not exactly hidden in the shadows.

You have made your point Appa. Nobody thinks you agree with the 'hacks' discussion. Let it go?

[magglass1]

You Hackers think your so BADASS? Lets build a server, with some very technical settings, and title it "Bot Wars". Everyone who wants to build a bot, in qualified to join the server (Other's can spectate) to see who has the BEST most BADASS bot. Keep the bots secluded to such like servers, and avoid using them in servers where bots are unwelcome.

Much appreciation, Thump

That would be a good idea, except I don't know anyone else who has done this. If everyone had modifications like mine then I'd understand being so upset about it, but I'm one person who wanted the challenge of coding something like this. I doubt very many other Tron players have anywhere near the skill to make the modifications I did (not bragging, just being realistic).

But if you do think a server like that would have enough users, then explain where they'd come from. I also want to note for the 100th time that what I made is not a "bot." It doesn't just drive itself and doesn't do too much without my own keyboard input. It mainly just assists me with turns so that I don't turn around corners too early and run into them.

[Word]

you could help the dev team to improve the bots

[Thump]

Well, i dont know of any bots (aside from the actual computer players) that dont require SOME user input at the very least. So, thats what i meant by bot. No, its not often mentioned of others who attempt to do this (create mods/play with code) but, there are a few. As mentioned, 'Paradox' had created something very similar, was a very annoying mod . But, Your mod VS his could be a spectacle i.e. Perhaps there ARE others who have the ability, and choose not to use it? Maybe such a server would encourage players with the talent necessary to try and create something unique. When i think about this, i think about this show i use to watch on TV, BattleBots. <--/me thinks. Where, teams would build a unique battlebot to destroy the others. If anyone out there is talented enough to mod their own -Bots- then a new edition to the server list might not be too far away. We'll see.

[magglass1]

I just don't like the term bot because in Tron it refers to players that are 100% computer controlled. What did Paradox' mod do?

[teen]

DOnt be so upset people. His bot has the same amount of rubber as everyone even though he can do some ninja moves. While playing sumo with him he was very easily killed until he ragequit i guess to go to another server. He wasnt under magglass1 though. i forget the name but it started with "O" LOL!

Btw let me get this... do you basically open up tron grab some popcorn and watch your bot play or do you at least help a little. You would rather have fun watching the game you could be playing?????

[Desolate]

Obsi built something similar that is partly human controlled. Maybe you should look outside ctwf before saying that no one else has done it.

[magglass1]

DOnt be so upset people. His bot has the same amount of rubber as everyone even though he can do some ninja moves. While playing sumo with him he was very easily killed until he ragequit i guess to go to another server. He wasnt under magglass1 though. i forget the name but it started with "O" LOL!

It wasn't me then. I almost always play under magglass1 and I've ever used a name starting with 'O'. I also don't ragequit...

Btw let me get this... do you basically open up tron grab some popcorn and watch your bot play or do you at least help a little. You would rather have fun watching the game you could be playing?????

No, like I said before (if you had bothered to read it before posting) it's not a bot and I'm in control. I'm sitting at the keyboard the whole time playing. Watching a bot play for me would get dull fast. And it doesn't just take good moves to play, you also have to have good strategy and know how to compensate for lag (watching the lagmeters, etc.). My code doesn't account for lag in any way.