There was a day where..

[Z-Man]

Agreed. Do tell me if I go to far with pruning such crap. The fundamental question there is whether we want past examples of inappropriate posts to linger around so people know what kind of stuff we don't want, and if we do want to keep it around, do we let it linger in the original thread or do we split it. Right now, I'm splitting junk off into new threads in the dev staff only forum.

[Phytotron]

And I still want an explanation as to why making a lighthearted comment comparing an Arma gameplay style/rules to a silly children's video game is worse, more offensive, more unacceptable than making a joke and glib slang out of rape.

It's not really possible to explain, it's a young male dominated gaming culture thing. In the context, 'rape' clearly only means 'kill', or 'pwn', especially without being able to do anything about it. And yes, suggesting to someone they should rather go play a game designed for 8 year old girls is worse. Still, I personally wouldn't have moderated either of those.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I had forgotten to reply to it, and feel a certain obligation to, especially having attended a Denim Day event Wednesday.

First of all, I still don't see how the My Little Pony comment was so terrible. I read it as rather generic smack talk, light-hearted, and harmless. It's certainly no worse than some of the default instachats included with this game. "Speed for 8 year old girls!" Big deal. Not to mention that line in english_base.txt that I questioned you about and of which you approved; the one concerning "holing."


Now, with respect to your defense of the use of "rape" in that manner, I don't think that's a valid justification whatsoever. Just because it supposedly carries another meaning? That's the same excuse given when they throw around "gay" and "f**got," or "jew" and "n**ger." That is a bullshit, myopic defense. Those are words of violence and hate and imply that the original subject is something 'bad' and deserving of disdain, and you should feel degraded for being compared to one.

As for substitution for or similarity to "kill," that's simple. Everyone dies; we can make light of it. Not everyone gets raped—and moreover, 50% of the population isn't a great deal more likely to be a victim, requiring heightened awareness (and fear) of everyday places and situations the other half wouldn't give a second thought. There's no real complication or grey area about killing. Most all of us, collectively as a society, recognise and accept it as a moral and ethical wrong, and something that should be prevented and punished severely. Moreover, it doesn't have lingering, devastating effects for the victim, and using it as slang isn't likely to be heard or taken as offense by a dead person. Even racial or anti-gay epithets can be either regarded to the dustbin of history or "reclaimed" by their targets (although I don't really agree with that approach). But rape does and continues to occur, and it is complicated, and there are so-called "grey rapes."

That's one of those terms that should never be used casually or as humour, and to do so crosses the line of any basic sense of decency. People, men in particular, need to understand the reality and severity of it. Rape is something that is far too commonplace, and ignored or even condoned by a disturbingly large proportion of the population, mostly male. As a result, and the undue shame associated with it, around 60% of sexual assaults go unreported at all. This is why the need for awareness advocacy of the type I referenced—especially among males; and even more so among young, impressionable males; and perhaps even more so among gamer males whose primary exposure to women probably consists of the mother, internet porn, and the occasional exaggerated, objectified, degraded game character.

Ask yourself or these little trogs if you or they would feel comfortable using "rape" in a joking manner in front of a woman—a mother, wife, sister, daughter—who had been a victim of rape or sexual assault. Every two minutes a female is sexually assaulted; at least one in six have been raped; one in four have survived at least an attempted rape. (More stats here.) Consider that any time you meet a woman, there's as much as a 25% chance she has been a victim of sexual assault. Allowing, condoning, even defending these little bastards' use of that word only makes it ever more casual, desensitised, trivialised—"not that big a deal" to these boys.

I don't know how anyone can, in good conscience and decency, defend that usage.

"Give the rim a break; rape an 8-year-old girl instead!" Would you approve of and support that?

[Z-Man]

With all due respect to your activism and rhetoric, I think you made yourself overly sensitive to this issue, and you're drawing a very wiggly line between acceptable and unacceptable language that I personally can't adopt. How does killing someone not leave a lasting impression? They're dead. It doesn't get more lasting than that. And while it's hard to find a dead person offended by language use, their relatives are still around, and even your stereotypical image of a gamer will have a dear relative already departed and, if the event is recent, may get emotionally stressed by usage of death related vocabulary.

"Give the rim a break; rape an 8-year-old girl instead!" Would you approve of and support that?

Umm, hyperbole? Also, 'go kill an 8-year-old girl instead!'. How is that better? Of course, neither would get into the official game text.

[Mecca]

\o

Sorry if resurrecting this seemingly dead topic was a bad idea...

BUT, I was using the search feature and came across it. I only read the first and last page (but I think I have an idea of what this topic is about!).

In response to Phytotron's most recent post:

Yeah, using the word rape like that may not settle well with everyone, BUT it really has developed another meaning. One of the things I hate the most is when other black people use the "N word". I know they don't mean anything bad by it, but I just think it shouldn't be said if you expect others not to say it, especially since many black people take great offense to the word. Words like "dirty", "nasty", and "sick" are perfectly good examples of words which have developed another meaning...

ANYWAYS, it gives us a great opportunity to practice this really cool thing called tolerance; you may not agree with the word choice of others, but you should respect the fact that it is their choice to use whatever words they want to...

IN RESPONSE TO THE GENERAL IDEA OF THE ORIGINAL POST!:

I think the forums are at least on their way to making a recovery... It will take some time, but it'll get there! \o/

o/

[Mkay1]

Mecca: you are two faced.
One post in a topic you are flaming at someone, and trashing a thread, (ranndom screenshots thread) then the next you try to act humane. You think the forums are getting better, they can not with people like you still around. What you said is unfathomably irritating, considering you cause 33.6% of all drama here.

Act your age, if you can...

[Word]

Act your age, if you can...

qft

[Mecca]

The post above is a perfect example of how it will take some time.

I have recently been trying to stay on topic more, keeping things chill. Of course, some people are going to take some of the things I say the wrong way and feel the need to make a post about it which will then send the topic into a flamewar (hopefully that doesn't happen here : |)

In time, hopefully people will be able to control their impulse to post when they are angry, and if they really feel the need to say something directly to one person, they will use the PM system.

[Concord]

One of the things I hate the most is when other black people use the "N word". I know they don't mean anything bad by it, but I just think it shouldn't be said if you expect others not to say it, especially since many black people take great offense to the word.

You have said word in your signature.

[Mecca]

Sorry for the confusion, what I mean is when black people use the N word when talking to their black friends like "Hey n*g*er, what's up?" Of course I don't enjoy being called a ni***r (who does?) and it just bothers me when they call each (and me, sometimes) that.

People saying the word with intentions of pissing someone off really doesn't bother me, because it is usually pretty clear that they are trying to offend you and feel the need to resort to that word (as spook did in my signature).

[apparition]

@Mecca "You should respect the fact that it is their choice to use whatever words they want to..." Yet one of the things you hate most, blah blah blah. You're so confused about things! If you really care about practicing tolerance I suggest you consider the use of the N word a good starting point. Everyone knows there's a difference between nigga and the actual N word. Understand the cultural divide and respect it, don't ignore it, but get over it and move on. That's what most people do. I've definitely always found your signature offensive. I have no idea why you think it's a good idea to have such idiotic things in EVERY SINGLE POST you make! And I really don't understand why it has been there for so long when it clearly should have been removed a long time ago.

[Mecca]

@Appa:

I have gotten over it. Yes but bugs me, but I respect others freedom of speech. I don't like it, but I TOLERATE it; I practice tolerance quite a bit.

About the signature!

TaZ was originally the only one with it in his signature, and it was uncensored; Tank actually did remove it and told him it was because of that word. TaZ did some photoshopping and came up with the current version you see now. I thought it was hilarious (especially since this was around the time when Spook introduced himself to Liz saying "I'm a gentleman") and then blah blah blah he turned out to not act like such a gentleman (it's a long story and I have an odd sense of humor).

I guess I could remove it if it's offensive though, nobody has ever said anything to me about it. Might as well get a new sig + avatar theme while I'm at it... Dubstep's admin action + quote are getting old now that you mention it...

[Phytotron]

When Mecca boasts in other threads about "you don't even know what a good troll is," of how "Encycopledia Dramatica is for noobs," and of his advanced trolling techniques, this is what he's talking about. It's not the crude, overt trolling; it's this more elaborate, devious, Orwellian shit.

It's stuff like creating a thread reacting to subby's about rubber and presenting it as though it's unrelated, spontaneous, and only meant to be an innocuous, casual discussion.

It's what he and Liz are doing in the screenshots thread—taking Z-Man's license (ridiculously literal interpretation of the topic title) and running with it, trying to push it as far as possible while insincerely acting innocent and fun-loving. He then mocks epsy and others, then says here, "I've recently been trying to stay on topic more." Don't you see he's spitting right in your faces and "lulzing" all the while?

It's what he's doing here digging up this thread, pretending that he just happened to stumble upon it, and disingenuously positioning himself as this cordial little angel while slipping in little sleazy bits to spit in everyone's faces some more and try to incite something. Then when people react, he can put it on them as though they're the troublemakers.

It's his "one of the nicest people in tron" thing. It's the saccharine avatar/sig pics (like the cliche visual of a little kid who's just done something bad, but dips his head while looking up, sly grin, puts a fist under his chin with one finger by the side of his mouth, the other behind his back, rubs his toe in the ground while swaying back and forth, and has a little halo over his head). Say one thing, do another, several times over. Lauding that the forums are "making a recovery" when he and his despicable gang are the ones who despoiled it in the first place.

Looks as though some folks are finally starting to realise this. How anyone else who has been paying attention any part of the last year can be so gullible and dense to it is beyond me.

[TaZ]

Getting back on topic, I think that the mods do show some favoritism. I looked in the random screenshots thread, and a mod told mecca that he's "really pushing it" just for posting a funny pic that he himself thought was funny. If someone wants to attack someone, then I say send it through pm. No need to write essays just because you feel what you have to say is right.

[Mkay1]

How is this on topic???

All you are doing is trying to make your 'crew' sound more credible, and humane. This will never be the case.

[TaZ]

I respect your opinion mkay, I honestly do. But next time, pm ok? Thanks.