I retire from FFF

sinewav · Post by **sinewav** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:43 am

kyle wrote:i'm still for four team FFF

Yeah, that would be wicked. I want it too.

compguygene · Post by **compguygene** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:59 am

do you guys mean four team fortress, like the one on manta's multi-mode server? the cancelled competiton?

Maybe we could do a rotation...one month fff next month four team fourtress?

Just a thought.

kyle · Post by **kyle** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:19 am

link on the past one, 2nd one got canceled
http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php? ... _Tourney_1

The map
http://beta.armagetronad.net/resource-b ... .aamap.xml

I'd still like to see epsy continue setting up the FFF, But there really should be a discussion thread on settings and whatnot.

@compguygene: that could be a possible solution, I'm not sure if that is the one on mana's multimode or not

compguygene · Post by **compguygene** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:18 am

Kyle: The link you provided is the one that i was thinking of...

I, also would like to see epsy run an fff tourney! I never intended to hijack his tourney, etc.

As i stated before, perhaps these two types of tourneys could be alternated, one one month, the other the following month.

My only real concern is trying to stick with the 2nd sunday of the month, as it integrates best with the overall tourney calendar, including the Wild West CTF and CTFS tourneys, which will be getting some players from.

As to settings, servers, epsy, and all the rest.. I think that the rest of you have far more wisdom and experience than I do. I just see the possibilities. I have very limited experience, unlike you guys.

Post by **Lucifer** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:27 am

DDMJ wrote:This reminds me of this topic.

epsy wrote:Thanks to whoever played the first FFF.
yw

I suppose the difference is that, iirc, FFF was a raging success. Hijacking a successful tournament is pretty lame.... (Yes, it is conventional when someone has organized a tournament you want to see run again for you to ask the original organizer if they'd mind if you run one, and if they say no, you should run an identical tournament under a completely different name

and step back so as not to compete with the tourney you copied )

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:51 am

kyle wrote:link on the past one, 2nd one got canceled
http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php? ... _Tourney_1

The map
http://beta.armagetronad.net/resource-b ... .aamap.xml

http://durkadurkaland.com/4teamfortress.cfg

The above is a link to the official settings (that uses a map that does not have settings embedded into it).

compguygene · Post by **compguygene** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:33 pm

Lucifer:NP, It was never my intention to hijack a tournamet! Obviously, it has become something along those lines. So, my brazen noobiness shows!

Durka, thanks for the settings needed.

Now, the real question...where do we stand...hmmmm.

Ok...Concord suggested the idea of calling this thing "The Spoon"

OK

There seems to be a worldwide desire for a "2 team, 4 player fortress tournament" and a "4 team, 4 player, fortress tournament"

There also seem to be optimized settings from prior tourneys for each tournament type.

This is sounding good!

OK

How about this guys,(and girls, don't want any of you listening to be as offended as everybody else that i have :cen2: off in this discussion).

We create a NEW tournament! (Yes I get your point Lucifer, I certainly can be jerky, offensive, idiot at times, this is certainly at least two of them). We call it The Spoon! (cc concord) I would like to take a lead on organizing it, with help from all of you, who know way more than I probably ever will.

We run The Spoon the Second Sunday of the Month start time somewhere between 6-7pm GMT. The spoon will alternate between FFF style tournament and Four Team Fortress Style Tournament.

I will start a new discussion thread to this effect!

My apologies for the Chaos, hurt feelings, and general mayhem that I have caused. But I have been just trying to find some sort of solution to what I perceive as a need that needs to be filled. Or perhaps, just my insanity that needs answered!

DDMJ · Post by **DDMJ** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:42 am

compguygene wrote:We create a NEW tournament! [...] We call it The Spoon!

I'm pretty sure that this doesn't classify as a "NEW" tournament since there used to be one called The Spoon.

nara · Post by **nara** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:26 am

Lol.
The changing of status quo is dangerous around here.

Like my goatee?

sinewav · Post by **sinewav** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:20 am

nara wrote:The changing of status quo is dangerous around here.

How do you mean? I don't understand what you are saying.

nara wrote: Like my goatee?

Yes.

newbie · Post by **newbie** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:08 pm

damn, fort has come a long way

Flex · Post by **Flex** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:05 am

This reminds me of what has happened to the TST. Someone decides to take it over, then demand to have their own rules, because they happened to be the "organizer"? But it's the same person, just on the other side of the story. Can it be right on both sides?

For the record.

Infamous (|x| Infamous) was the original "creator" and he was the one who contrived FFF, the name, the rules, and about everything (I think) was his idea. I believe no matter what amount of effort anyone puts forward to any project or work, it is only a contribution and doesn't entitle anyone to ownership. When contributing, the person should know it's only a contribution and nothing more, just as equal to the next person that decides to contribute. He/she should know that his efforts are only contributions and will always be, unless stated otherwise with proper official statements of ownership change, by of course; the current owner.

With that said. FFF is basically a 4vs4 Fortress. Does that mean anyone who wants to start a 4vs4 Fortress tournament have to automatically call it FFF or go through the "owner"? No! In my opinion, nobody owns it. If anyone wants to host a 4vs4 tournament, they are completely entitled to. The way I saw it (till he changed his story) was; compguygene wanted to restart the FFF, that was no longer being organized and without creating a whole new tournament, he could quickly set it up with everyone being familiar to it. Seemed like a perfectly acceptable idea. Kind of similar to what epsy did with the TST, right? Oh, but this time it's someone taking it from his hands.

Solution?

I believe FFF has, with its success, inevitably become like the Ladle where nobody can completely decide anything or have ownership. Because it's nobody's work, but simply a 4vs4 Fortress tournament, nothing more different. So create a wiki page and call it something like 4vs4 Ladle and have exactly the Ladle settings, rules and organization and let people sign up. Then epsy can keep his FFF and everyone can be happy.

I just hate hijackers.

joda.bot · Post by **joda.bot** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:25 am

uhm, afaik the conflict in this thread is "solved".

@infa: I don't communities splitting because of misunderstandings and miscommunictaion. We can achive alot more if we work together and listen to eachother's motivations without second guessing. epsy really organized the last fff well (and knows alot about how to do it), so why not transfer/use some of that know-how. Other people can contribute their input too, in this more recent thread:

http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=19138

Epsy and compguygene are cooperating if possible and I hope atleast some misunderstandings have been cleared up. Armagetron is small community, so let's work together and be friends not rivals (attract more people to the game and make 2020 happy).