Something is going bad in armagetron

safariskater · Post by **safariskater** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:25 pm

hoop wrote:Lizmatic, epsy: that's extremely sad

hmm oh yes -_-

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:13 pm

Well, the way I see it, the chain of command is server admin > server moderator, and in this case, maybe clan leaders > server admin. Proper further conduct for Lizmatic, who is obviously unhappy now, would therefore be to appeal to the clan leaders.

We developers and project admins have no place at all in this

It's my philosophy that unless theres really horribly atrocious abuse or dangerous exploiting of bugs going on, each server admin (or group) is king of his server. We wouldn't have as many good server as we have if we constantly meddled with server policies. Nevertheless, purely from an external viewpoint and still not knowing the full facts (and not caring too much), I think epsy is doing the right thing.

K-Yo · Post by **K-Yo** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:52 pm

Lizmatic wrote:This topic can be locked, nobody in x is racist and there is no racism in our server, there are certain language rules though so read them over and you won't get in trouble.

#armagetron logs 23-12-08 wrote:15:37 <Lizmatic> tron has made me racist towards spanish ppl
15:37 <epsy> LOL same here

I really don't like how you can't take responsibility for your words...

gawdzilla · Post by **gawdzilla** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm

Z-Man wrote:Well, the way I see it, the chain of command is server admin > server moderator, and in this case, maybe clan leaders > server admin. Proper further conduct for Lizmatic, who is obviously unhappy now, would therefore be to appeal to the clan leaders.

We developers and project admins have no place at all in this It's my philosophy that unless theres really horribly atrocious abuse or dangerous exploiting of bugs going on, each server admin (or group) is king of his server. We wouldn't have as many good server as we have if we constantly meddled with server policies. Nevertheless, purely from an external viewpoint and still not knowing the full facts (and not caring too much), I think epsy is doing the right thing.

I dunno which clan leaders you're talking about, because x DOESN'T have a leader.

K-Yo, can you read? If so, read this.. I'll copy it AGAIN.

<Lizmatic> internet, serious business..
<K-Yo> I can't understand you
<Lizmatic> really, take everything on here 110% serious

This topic can indeed be locked, because we're talking about this matter in the x private section, further 'discussion' will only lead to petty arguments. Of course, if you want that, by all means.. continue.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:18 pm

Lizmatic wrote:I dunno which clan leaders you're talking about, because x DOESN'T have a leader.

Excuse me for not knowing the internal workings of your clan, I was merely extrapolating from practically all other clans there.

Lizmatic wrote:further 'discussion' will only lead to petty arguments. Of course, if you want that, by all means.. continue.

Agreed. Dunno about a lock, but this seems to be now an internal x affair and we should give them a chance to sort it out without interference.

Gonzap · Post by **Gonzap** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:37 pm

Come on Lizmatic, don't you remember our discussion? and what you said there? Don't be childish and admit that your behavior wasn't well and don't try to say that all this is a joke or wasn't serious because I don't believe it and I guess others either

sol · Post by **sol** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:42 pm

I agree with Z-Man. They gotta sort it out now.

Just one question I can't deny myself from asking: What happened to Alex - no more clan leader?

Desolate · Post by **Desolate** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:51 pm

Was he clan leader? I thought that a couple people from different clans came and made it.

¦×¦ Clan

tag: ¦×¦
type: fortress / sumo
formation: Late November 2006
homepage: http://xclan.net.tf/
comments: Formed from a small group of players from AST (Alex, Hoax, Fofo) after that died, along with Infamous and $ubzero after SL and LoD also both died.

That's from the ct site here is link http://crazy-tronners.com/viewtopic.php?t=1409

Flex · Post by **Flex** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:02 am

He (Alex) was just a captain, and someone to sign us up and represent us during clan events and such. :p How many times do I have to tell you people! Hehe. It was agreed from all members at the time. He is mostly inactive now and so everyone shares his work so he has stepped down so to speak.

On topic:

This has gone way too far and instead of resolving this we're(epsy is) revoking peoples rights and going to the extreme. Whatever happened, has happened and I don't care. If she decided to silence someone she did it with her rights to do so. Instead of arguing about who said what and what was said, the simple public statement to make is every server is different and we make OR have our own rules. This isn't an extreme or outlandish rule, it's simple. Speak English so everyone understands you or use the private messaging feature. We prefer everyone to talk in English and if she asked him to stop talking Spanish, and he didn't agree, then that was his fault. The excuse to silence or prevent someone from speaking Spanish is easy, if he was saying anything negative towards someone else or the admin, the admin would not know, so it's a rule she followed and was playing by the book.

I myself would have asked him to stop and speak in private, if he had not I would have silenced too. I don't know what the objective here is from Puuquie, but it's going way too far for such a small thing. (Silencing him.) He has posted on more than this forum and on the other forum it's the same arguments. To me this isn't about talking Spanish or protecting his rights, but rather taking revenge on someone or something along those lines.

epsy
If you choose to change the rules, do so. But rights being revoked is a different matter NOW and not to be taken action alone for something that was done before. She is correct, you are not the leader of x clan, so by the chain of command you have positioned yourself as "server admin" and have not even spoke to the whole clan regarding this issue as the leaders of x clan is the whole clan by vote and voiced opinion. Nobody decided to elect you or put you in that position. I'm fed up of this and how you go about controlling the server.

If wrtlprnft needs to get involved and makes the decision that you have sole control over the server, then I as an x member and specially an x member BEFORE YOU joined think it's reasonable to distance ourselves from that server. Because nobody in x has ever taken control of something that belonged to everyone in the clan.

Desolate · Post by **Desolate** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:10 am

Well, according to the original story, many other people were silenced along with the spanish person, just for defending the spanish person.

Post by **Lucifer** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:11 am

I've noticed that as soon as an argument goes public, both sides dig in, no matter how right or wrong they may be. Let a public argument go on long enough and both sides will become wrong, no matter what their original position is. This is why politics is such a nasty business (besides all the money and power), once two politicians take opposing positions publicly, they can't back down.

It takes a certain kind of person to be able to hold a public disagreement and actually resolve it.

The reason I say this is less about this particular topic and more about all of the "the server mod did this and it was SO WRONG" topics that we get. Often, the person who feels slighted takes a position where by taking the question public, they will be able to get things made right. Sadly, that's usually counter productive.

It's probably too late for this particular issue, unless both sides agree to stop arguing it in public and to not even come out and tell the rest of us (publicly) how it was resolved, but in the future, can we get posts more like "This server mod did something and I'd like to talk to them privately"? Then you get the benefits of showing the whole universe you have a problem, but without any of the associated costs that prevent the problem from ever being resolved.

Puuquie · Post by **Puuquie** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:58 am

@Flex. I have no objective here. I was annoyed because I saw Lizmatic abusing (I think) admin rights. She silenced several players by a nonsense. I didnt mind this, and I only posted in your X forums. Is your server and maybe I didnt understand your rules. I was polite in X server and I tried to explain to Lizmatic that I was only asking a friend, not spamming.
But later I see in #armagetron other things that for my eyes are a bad attitude, and I got sad and posted it here. Only this.
I have to say several things:
Lizmatic wasnt joking and a admin shouldnt think this things because people can extrapolate to the whole clan;
and Epsy, maybe I am misinterpreting him. I dont know. I was surprised and I hope I misunderstood him. If so I will apologize.
And I have no problem with all x clan. It is a nice clan. All of you are nice persons. Hoax, Rico, Raiden, Roter, Viper, Subzero, you, etc.

Lucifer wrote:Often, the person who feels slighted takes a position where by taking the question public, they will be able to get things made right. Sadly, that's usually counter productive

You are right. I should have written this only in the x clan forum.

gawdzilla · Post by **gawdzilla** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:10 am

Desolate wrote:Well, according to the original story, many other people were silenced along with the spanish person, just for defending the spanish person.

And you're saying this because you were in there...? You weren't there Big_D, so your opinion isn't relevant at all. Stop throwing wood on the fire.

z-man or any other admin: isn't there any way to lock this topic? x is resolving this in private, and I'm quite annoyed by people who have nothing to do with this constantly giving their opnion in here, the only people who know what happened were in the server that day.

This is my last post in here, I already said nobody in x is a racist and racism isn't tolerated in the server, if you ignore this then that's your own problem. I don't care about your stupid grudges.

Seeya.

Fonkay · Post by **Fonkay** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:48 am

Can't we all just get along?

Post by **Lucifer** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:23 pm

Everytime someone gets along on these forums, God kills a kitten.