Armagosdarnish? not reachable?

Here you can discuss Armagoshdarn, settings specific to it, what you think about it, etc.

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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer »

ishAdmin wrote:Don't be crazy mom! I appreciate you admitting you ripped it by accident. Keep playing! Did the game go down?

But I am curious. How do you rip accidentally? I mean, what is it that you are doing when this happens. If you feel the information could be used for evil, then pm me. I'm looking for information that might help determine better settings that will lower the likelyhood of this.
I did a rip the other night on boc that was pretty straightforward, and after reading philippe's explanation, it makes perfect sense. I hit the wall pretty fast and started grinding to get around another wall someone had layed right next to the outer wall and the thing ripped.

It was gone by the start of the next round. It didn't actually rip a big spiked hole like we see, it was more like one of those where the arena wall became a trapezoidal shape.

I've also noticed that when I leave the armagetronad process running on my machine, whenever I play the game (as a separate process) I get like 20fps. If I just restart the armagetronad process (running Breakfast in Hell), everything straightens out. Not sure if it's just scheduling magic having to do with Linux 2.6 or if it's something in the server process...

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root down
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Post by root down »

as far as i can tell, there's 2 methods people use to rip, the most popular method being just nailing a really solid grind by 180s, adjusting or maybe even pure. kess used a diffewrent method that he tried to explain to me once, something like grind then tap the brake repeatedly (which you bind to 4 different keys) he then adjusted his grind, which ended up in him being bounced to the outside of the arena....or something like that. i don't know if this helps, but maybe removing the brake or toning it down would reduce his ability to do this (as i'm convinced the ramen noodles guy is kess)
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Your_mom
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Post by Your_mom »

ok mabey retiring is a bit harsh but im not gonna be able to play till this wednesday.

I did an excillent pure on a wall saw that a noob was grinding up ahead on the wall in front of me got ready to do the corner and after i grinded on that wall for 2 seconds(the time the lag caused jumping /lag delay whatever you call it) it looked like i had done a great grind on the corner all of a sudden i crashed, the wall ripped and pushed inside the grid sort of rounding the corner killing the noob grinding on the wall then destroying everyone inside the grid the game reset like nothing had happened but it makes me nervous.


Heat of the moment kinda thing i guess you guys will see plenty more of me on the grid.

When im more cautious my grinds get to soft finding a balence is tough, i dont like noobs beating my grinds. Mabey i shouldnt have been so rash but while your server was down not too many other places to go besides the breakfasts. Kinda miss darn and your place is as close as it comes as i get terrable lag at the clone.

*edit- i don't double bind or use brakes ,and i only adjust/180 when nervous or to lazy to pure against noobs but we are only talking like a 180 to create a soft grind when ~3 grid lengths away from the wall

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Post by ishAdmin »

yeah mom, you and I both are too far from the clone. :)

Thanks for all that input folks. I might try adjusting the brake settings slightly, or other settings too. All you guys who are fairly good at ripping who've given me feedback may be invited to test the settings while I'm there to monitor. stay tuned for that
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Post by subby »

I have an Idea ..... The multible use of breaking to get closer and closer to the wall untill a "rip" may be avoidable if we include in the server code the death of a person who uses the break?

Another way of reducing ripping capability is reducing the rubber settings. This however is bad for ppl far from the server ie. ME! lol

This can be seen by experimenting on a local game going to the console type in cycle_rubber 50, use my hud and see what happens to the various settings as you hit a wall, keep U turning untill you break through. Very easy when rubber is higher, not as easy when rubber is low.

Doing this wilkl also give you an Idea of how rubber exactly works.

I tried to debug why rips occur using the above method but I couldn't find it, perhaps a better debbuger will be able to find it and fix it? Because as far as I'm concerend, it's this that needs fixing first, as it is the thing that will stop ppl serving games as can be seen by the demise of one the most successfull and missed server "Armagoshdarn" as weel as being a complete pain i the arse when a f.uck wit like kess rips on purpose.

:o :D :x :evil: :roll:

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Post by Tank Program »

Maybe adjusting cycle_wall_near or something? So then you just make it impossible to rip... Then again, I may just be rambling deliriliously from my cold :S.
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Post by Lucifer »

root down wrote:(as i'm convinced the ramen noodles guy is kess)
The ramen noodles guy is radiofiasco, and I *think* I've seen him and kess in the grid together. I definitely don't see radiofiasco pulling the kind of crap kess is reputed for, but the few times I've seen kess he was just playing, not causing trouble. Radiofiasco can be irritating sometimes (oh my ******' ramen noodles shut the **** up already about it), but overall he's a good player, from what I've seen.

A sure bet woud be if kess ever talked about ramen noodles, proposing to his girlfriend, and living in a dorm.

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Freewheelin'56
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Post by Freewheelin'56 »

Well saw an ole grinder last night. Algerion was back :lol: Still up to the same ol playing tricks, boxes and winning. Was good to play him again.
Freewheelin'58 I want Goshdarn back!!
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root down
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Post by root down »

yea lucy you're right, tis radiofiasco
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Post by philippeqc »

Your_mom wrote:ok i just ripped ish by accident.
I need to ask.

If you ripped the wall, did that make the game crash?Or was it because you wandered around? Can you tell me exactly what led to the demise of the server?

I'm so curious because I've done some code that should kill a player wandering too far (Too far being after the limit of the eGrid (not the rim, the underliying object, what is supposed to crash the game).

But to my surprise, leaving by a hole in the rim (permanent hole), I noticed that I was bounded by some invisible wall not so far from the outside of the rim. It was impossible for me to reach the limit of the eGrid and test my code!!!!

So I would like as detailled an account of the crash as possible, so I can go and fix the problem.

-ph

I have to say that the game was local and that I was using the latest from cvs. It's a bit too late now to check all the changes commited since 0.2.7 to see if something would "fix" the problem. Has the crashing issue been already addressed?
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Post by k »

I don't think the crashing code has been fixed. The main problem is that the rendering code is calling tError because it doesn't like what is going on and that terminates the program. It needs to be fixed to gracefully handle the error(s) and either ignore them if possible, force the round/match to restart, or something else.

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Post by ishAdmin »

Here's what *I* would like it to do when a rip is detected.

End the round immediately.
The person who ripped shall have their scores removed from the ladder/matches/rounds etc.
Their nick/ip should be written to a bad dog file.
Their nick should be kick-a-rooo'd, and added to a permanent kick list.

Actually, I'd like to have ip banning within the program, instead of using my firewall. If that were the case, it would be easy to add an ip to a ban list in the instance of a rip. To me, this stuff is more important than any other future development in the game.

Or if it was made so that a rip became impossible, that would be best. No need to kick and ban for this reason.
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Post by philippeqc »

Hi,

Rip is a non-event in the game. It doesnt exist. Thus it cant be detected.

I'm quite sure its not the ripping that crash the server, but something after. To really address the crashing of the server, I need detailled information of what lead to it. No details, no fix, and you keep enoying those wonderfull crash.

Thank you, come again!
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-ph
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Post by ishAdmin »

Isn't player position known? It would seem to me that if a player goes right to the very edge (or on it), you could know this, and take action.
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Post by philippeqc »

Hi,

Maybe because I've had the nose so deep in the code, I see things very differently.

The problem: The server crash if you roam too far outside of the rim.

The symptom: It is possible to open a hole in the rim, thus allowing a player to 'exit' the inside of the rim.

The way the game is built, it would be possible to define a very small rim (just as a point of reference), set everybody's startup position outside, and play this way as long as nobody ventures too far away. That would be a legit game.

The problems with the "check if the player is outside" solutions are:
a) There is no in or outside in the game. Just a bunch of walls. You hit one, you die. You dont hit one, you keep playing.
b) Players often go "outside" in very legit moves. I'm sure you all have seen your cycle, after a turn near a trace or the rim on a lagged game, end up far 'outside' and see it slide back to its proper position.
c) All the position are in float. Because of the limitation of this format, it is quazy impossible to test if 2 float are equal. Having an independant algo to check if you are "on" the rim, thus detecting a ripping condition will suffer from that. Having the real code is also tricky for very similar condition. And what if the cycle is sliding back to position and just has a transition exactly over the rim.

But none of these complex technique protect the game from a crash in the case of the legit game defined before.

-ph
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