Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

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Desolate
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Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

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2020
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Re: Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

Post by 2020 »

Any open teams?
hold the line

syllabear
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Re: Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

Post by syllabear »

Following discussion on the ladle discord channel. Thanks to capone for his summary which is also pinned in the ladle channel:
capone wrote:the issue of the length of ladle was raised. Potential solutions: include a round limit, reduce score limit/more points earned per round, include a hard time limit (for a round) via deathzone, include a soft time limit (for a round) via no rubber refill, make ladle Bo1 until finals which would be Bo3, make ladle take place over multiple days
Summarised as bullets with some of the counter-points in the discussion:
  • Reduce the number of round robin pairings e.g. to 3 pairings.
  • Limit round robin (and semi finals) to best of one match
  • Reduce score of each match e.g. to 50 points
  • Play ladle over a number of days e.g. Saturday and Sunday or successive Sundays
  • Play matches based on match time limit - this is likely to cause situations where a team that gains an advantage then plays hyper-defensively e.g. a 6 player sweepbox
  • Deathzone to end long rounds early - this would cause rounds to end without zone/round points so may end up slowing things down overall. Also lose out on the intensity of 1v1 or 1v2s
  • Stop rubber from refilling after a set time to encourage rounds to end quicker - would require an external script, complex
The Halley's comet of Armagetron.
ps I'm not tokoyami

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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

Post by sinewav »

I'm going to muddy this up a bit by requesting we audit the Ladle to find out exactly where our time sinks are. Maybe get some data from old streams/recordings?

Can we parse an aarec for instances of START_NEW_MATCH so we can see how long matches are and how much time there is between? And maybe how long an average round is?

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Re: Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

Post by syllabear »

Power Rankings

We've not had any of these for a while so I thought I'd bring them back. I know historically these have been in a separate topic, but given that we only get a few posts in each topic I decided it may as well go in the ladle topic. So here are my power rankings for the upcoming ladle in reverse order:

6. dumb Tronners
Unfortunately I haven't gotten to see this team play yet in a ladle. Of the listed members, I've only seen three of them play in pickup since last ladle. I suspect they may perform better than I anticipate, but I can unfortunately only put them here due to my lack of knowledge about their team play and to some extent, their individual skill. I do hope you prove me wrong though!

5. Pandora's B::x
PB performed very well in several matches last ladle, however, this was with the assistance of veteran forter ppotter. He has been replaced (so to speak) on the roster by nate, another well-rounded fortress player. Honestly I feel it is a close call between this team and OT (see their ranking below for more on this), but I feel that PB just haven't quite got the teamwork or the individual skill down yet. I think it is close though and a few roster changes and a bit more practice could see them pushing further up this list in the future.

4. Open Team
Although I am listed as a substitute for this team, I really don't think I will be playing for them (as I'll be casting/running challonge). So if it isn't personal bias, why am I ranking this disparate, rag-tag bunch of players above regular ladle participants? Well when it comes to fort, individual skill levels tend to form a lower level barrier to performing well in ladles - the teamwork is what separates the winners from second place. Having run the OT myself a few times, I know there is usually an abundance of skill that makes itself known on ladle day, and I think that will propel the OT ahead of the aforementioned teams.

3. Paradigm
Paradigm have yet to truly break into the winners circle that has been dominated by twixted arrows for the last eight (8!) ladles. The only teams to really challenge them have been Concord's group who won as Korean Meta in ladle 120, and the team currently known as The Smurfs (previously Dumpster Tier, The Magicians, and loosely, Evolve). Their individual skill is a step above the aforementioned teams, and their teamwork is also approaching fairly good levels, but both of these areas still fall short of the quality shown by Txa and The Smurfs. Unlike Pandoras box, I think while a little bit of individual improvement would help, their current levels mean a high degree of synergy could propel them to 2nd, or even 1st on this list

2. The Smurfs
I think the top two are very difficult to call. In ladle 121 The Smurfs defeated Txa soundly in the opening round. In ladle 120 they were also undefeated going into the finals, again beating Txa in round two, and the eventual winners (Korean Meta) in round 3. However, perhaps one of the most underlooked aspects of success in this tournament is endurance. Playing a 2-4 hour tournament is extremely draining, especially when playing at high levels. While this could theoretically be managed by a larger roster and substitutes, there really isn't enough participation in ladle to allow this. Where this team falls down repeatedly is their drop off in form as the tournament progresses. By the time the finals come around, players who have more experience with the long format of this tournament maintain their standard to a better degree and that is why (in my opinion) this team has not yet tasted ladle victory. They are extremely close though, and I would not be surprised if I call this wrong.I also don't like the use of aliases in ladle - this is not TST or WST

1. Twi×ted arrows
As mentioned above, this team has won 7 of the last 8 ladles. Their roster is also incredibly consistent, meaning that in order to beat them, you need to play better than them. Recently I think this team has missed out on certain key players - Vov in ladle 120 (who played for the eventual winners Korean meta) and Titanoboa in ladle 121. I don't think it is a coincidence these omissions coincided with the only official defeats this team has suffered in this incredible 8 ladle dominance (they did "lose" 1-0 to evolve in ladle 118, but this afforded evolve their finals spot, which was then won 2-0 by Txa, effectively a 2-1 win over the two legs). With Titanoboa - a keen attacking threat - still MIA, this could be a good a time as any for another team to chip further away at their veneer of invincibility... but I can't see it to be honest. Maybe in future ladles, but I think this time around the opposition does not really offer enough threat to claim a further upset against this leviathan
The Halley's comet of Armagetron.
ps I'm not tokoyami



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Re: Ladle 122 - February 7th, 2021

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