win the Tronic Spoon!

[ed]

Without getting into a discussion about what we've learnt from the spoon.
I think the Lucifer's post is necessary for that.

I don't think 8T should reenter the tournament. If ?? beat CT, can we have another go for turning up?
Maybe, if it's still going when people have more time, we could play ni for a shot against the winners of mbc/8t/aw.
We might even get another crack at ?? in the final. Who know's.
Maybe even Frog Eggs can finally get a team, they may want another go.

Maybe it's me, but just seems daft.

It seems that most those who participated enjoyed it, and would like another more organiseed event. As would a few more who didn't enter.

I'm sure there will be more, better events in future than 8T can enter.

[gnorty]

We might even get another crack at ?? i

You know you don't REALLY want more of that

[2020]

gosh
i was dreading this forum
but i am happy to hear your response
and especially thankful to luci for his candour

1. 2020 creates the spoon as a one-day event and asks for suggestions and discussion, the final event being decided by consensus.

i offered the idea originally to a few other players
they supported it and so i went ahead with the wiki pages...
i was hoping people would take part within the constraints
offering suggestions to pull off a rather crazy notion...
that of 1,000,000 players in a years time

2. People get interested, 2020 says "this is beyond my organizational ability" or whatever. It's in this thread, first or second page, maybe third.

after an initial poo-pooing
a few critical people showed interest
and this galvanised interest
and yes
it is beyond my organisation skill
mainly because i am not good on details
but also
because the kind of organisation i was hoping for
is self-organised
and is beyond any one of us to organise...
(
for me
organise does not mean control...
it means a system which is non-centralised and non-hierarchical
and relies on multi-agent participation
)

3. People talk about it and come to a consensus that is not a one-day event. 2020 objects.

the wiki was designed for several alternative strategies to be offered
and then when all the details were there
i was hoping there would be several possible solutions
then
and only then
do we make the decision...

4. 2020 uses all available means of communication to make his objections to the consensus he solicited in the first place.

sorry
i was a little disappointed that things just started going down one track
without due consideration of alternatives
especially since it seemed to disqualify certain future developments...
but you Luci were very generous in altering your original time-scale
to fit into the tronic progression...

5. SPOON is the most successful arma tournament in 2 years (that being about the time Lucifer has been watching such things). 2020 blames failure on the consensus that was reached.

i am glad it has been
and i enjoyed the games we played
and i put that down to the work that vanhayes and psyko and my teammates put in
and all the other captains and contributors to team-wiki pages

The dead horse you're beating is the one-day event. So do your one-day event and see how many people show up. You're determined to learn this lesson the hard way, in the face of numerous people (besides myself) telling you they've already learned it and teh results. So go learn it. Knock yourself out. Can't stop a kid from burning his fingers on the stove if he really wants to, you know.

i do feel like a kid sometimes
but that's what the game does to me


ok
6
My agenda is peculiar. Each step is designed to be future-proof. I understand that most players just want a tournament, and can't conceive of the possibility of 1,000,000 players in a year. So, the solutions they come up with are too limited: restricted by current numbers, technology, social organisational skills, etc. They compare suggestions to current practice or experienced history.
The only way it is even vaguely possible, is that people try new experiences, and it works. Only then can we as players discuss our design criteria since we have a shared experience. And so we can progress on to the next step...
7
I have always objected to several weeks planning because it becomes impractical when we deal with more than maybe 16 teams... It has to be conducted in one day... I do apologise...
8
The tronic progression is not imposed. If one thinks of the final objective, then the intermediary goals rise in and of themselves. The first one, the Tronic Spoon, was just testing whether the current players can organise themselves... and we did... ish.... The next one, the Tronic Ladle, I hope we can try to do in one evening...

you see...?
there is a catch-22:
i don't have the skills to come up with a complete working solution
and yet i can't accept strategies that disqualify the goal:
the tronic cup

i know
i know...
1,000,000 players
sounds crazy...
but what a laugh...
if we could play all the games in 8 hours....
hehehhe
that would be one hell of an event...
and with £1 a player entrance fee
we derive the funds for developers
and prize-money for teams
and even server-costs...

for me...
it just sounds like a crazy idea
and the only reason it won't happen is because
we don't have a self-organised system which is flexible enough...
yet...
and i can only think it might work
if people join in
trust one another
which is why
luci
gnorty
et al
i feel we are on the same team...

[gnorty]

2020 dont let one persons negativity put you off. if it feels good to you, then do it. If it stops feeling good, then is the time to stop, not when your first effort misfires a little

[joda.bot]

8th Team (might) respawns for the Knights of Ni. Any objections might be voiced here, if possible I'd prefer objections by a whole team (MBC, CT, AW, ??).

http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/ ... awn_of_8th

Read it and just add objections ... silence => approval

[ed]

For my reasons stated above I object.
8T already was allowed to enter the competition late without the seeds.
They then lost their knockout round to SS.
joda, please accept defeat and wait till the next one.

If you want battle, ct will happily oblige with a friendly.

I know the spoon is no longer being taken seriously, but at least treat it with a small amount of respect.

silence => approval

Why silence => approval

surely, it means not care, so the vote not counted.

[joda.bot]

ok, so we'll just do a training/friendship match vs. mbc...

Ed: I counted your voice as "CT does not want 8th to respawn". I'm fine with this... I read your opinion, but I was not sure if it was just your opinion or CTs. You're scared right ?

It's boring to see you all discuss, but noone playing matches as you should... well, the 8th will play a match vs. MBC ... even if it does not count.

@Ed: about silence => approval : Most players won't reply if they agree with something, but will reply if they object ... that's why I used that default ... and of course it's my prefered choice

[ed]

Most players won't reply if they agree with something, but will reply if they object

What if they don't read it?

You're scared right ?

Just pop along to our forums and post that you'd like a match.

CT will happily teach you a lesson about fear

[Lackadaisical]

I think i'm with ed (and hayes) about 8team getting another chance. I can't tellwhat my whole team thinks about this case though.

[Pezz]

soooooooo...

are we gonna get the last two matches wrapped up and finish this thing?

[Van-hayes]

No clue, AW and MBC tried to set up a match but there was confusion with the times and then someone posing as 2020 set up a match with MBC that none of us knew about.

[DrJoeTr0n]

I thought this was done...

2020 If you really want try your 1 day 1 million Players Bonanza 20XX(Exty Ex)! Good friggin luck pal. I mean, so what if everyone else has tried to do everything in one day (I participated in one my self 2 years ago) and resulted in nobody showing up because people not caring enough to play this game at whacky, whacky times and are telling you that this did not work for them. You defy those naysayers, who've done this before, and you keep on truckin! Good for you!
I hope you don't imply the "PRIZE MONEY GIVE AWAY" like you offered before. If you are, better setup that pay pal account now to make it look kind of legit. Have fun with lawsuits about 14 year olds stealing credit cards and blaming you because of it. If you really wanted this successful.
Tourneys over a longer period of time work much better.. We proved that this year for us. Tourneys can also of course take place in one day yes. Usually if it’s local and is small though. You're asking for a million people in one day. That's too many people if you ask me. Not even the Olympics do everything in one day. But hey, who am I to say. You could very well set up something great and have One million people flock to play. I’m not saying you can’t pull it off. But chances of you actually pulling this off successfully are very slim. Good luck.

[2020]

...whacky, whacky times...

i agree it is about timing

Have fun with lawsuits about 14 year olds stealing credit cards and blaming you because of it.

hope that doesn't happen
though we are only talking about £1 entrance fee
and to reach a million
a substantial part may be through school-teams
so yes it has to be legit...
btw
wolverine came up with this objection right at the start
and it is something which definitely has to be address at some point...

You could very well set up something great and have One million people flock to play. I’m not saying you can’t pull it off. But chances of you actually pulling this off successfully are very slim. Good luck.

Thanks. Though you seem to be misunderstanding me. It is not something I am trying to pull off. It is merely a crazy proposition.
I have avoided dealing with money and legal problems until we have actually managed to host an event with say 100 people who happen to be tron-addicts already! Only once we do that, does the idea start to have any validity at all... which is in itself... rather amusing...
Thanks though Joe, and if the next competition ever does materialise, I am going to come back to you as well as back to Wolverine to see if you have any ideas on how to legitimise the money-thing...