Ladle 108

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sinewav
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Ladle 108

Post by sinewav »

Continuing the discussion from Ladle 107.

On the wiki, I have renamed Super Leaders back to Team Leaders. Now we need to give Team Leaders the authority they need to run a Ladle. Below are a few settings I have reduced from higher levels down to 7. What other commands would a Team Leader need access to? Are there any potential problems with the current config (104)? I'm not worried about abuse as much as efficiency.

Code: Select all

ACCESS_LEVEL_OP 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_COMMAND 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_COMMAND_EXECUTE 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_INCLUDE 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_INCLUDE_EXECUTE 7
ACCESS_LEVEL SLAP 7
Since we are pretty much using Gene's servers exclusively I guess this the rest of this TODO list is for him:
  • :bdot: Update congifurations:
    /resource/compguygene/ladle/ladle108.cfg
    /resource/compguygene/ladle/LadleAuthorityV1_2.cfg
  • :bdot: Upgrade servers to 0.4 branch.
Now, my own personal TODO list involves finishing that IRC bot, then updating the Ladle Operations page once we have a working system. To keep things as simple as possible, something like this might work:
  • Team Leaders show up in IRC at Ladle start (18:00 GMT).
  • Assuming everyone has congregated in one of the Ladle servers, a Ladle Enthusiast creates a list of players with Team Leaders at the top. (Making a list quickly without mistakes will be a challenge.)
  • The list is run through a bot which tries to make teams of at least 6 players.
  • These teams are announced in the server, players divide up and proceed with the event.
Questions that need to be resolved:

Assuming the average Ladle will have between 12 and 24 players, in most cases the event will have either three or four teams. Should we abandon tournament brackets for a round-robin event? Three teams is not very fun with a bracket system. If we consistently have more than 24 players, single/double elimination would be good, but realistically the player base will slowly shrink rather than grow.

How do we accommodate alternate team generation methods? Some people would prefer #pickup style teams with captains or perhaps a system where players can have regular teammates. After all, part of the fun of team games is camaraderie.

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compguygene
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Re: Ladle 108

Post by compguygene »

To do list received. I will get on that tomorrow. I would suggest that Kyle do the same with his servers to be safe.
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Re: Ladle 108

Post by Monkey »

@sinewav
You have brought up some good questions and ideas for changes, however, what concerns me is that if we change too many things, a lot of people won't know what is going on. Bear in mind that most people last Ladle just turned up at Ladle start time with no clue as to proceedings. I doubt that most people would check the Ladle challenge board when they are supposed to. Just my two cents... :)
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Re: Ladle 108

Post by sinewav »

Monkey wrote:...what concerns me is that if we change too many things, a lot of people won't know what is going on. Bear in mind that most people last Ladle just turned up at Ladle start time with no clue as to proceedings.
You are right, and that's why we should work toward a general purpose tournament server, so people can just "show up." In the meantime we will have to rely on excellent Team Leaders who can be responsible, show up in IRC, and communicate effectively with people who wander into Ladle servers looking to play.

UPDATE: I worked on the bot tonight and wrote the team logic but have not tested it in #arma.tourneys. I'll do that this week (I'm taking the week off of work to do catch up on side jobs, also, jury duty :/ ).

Because I want everyone to play as much as possible I don't like the idea that we can wind up with quite a few people sitting around throughout the event. For example, if 17 people show up that means two teams of 6 with 2-3 subs each. Those extra five could form a third team, but who would they play? Any Ladle with less than 24 players will have a third team with no one to play. Can we discuss the idea of flexible team sizes again? If 16 people show up we can have two teams of 8. If 20 people show up we can have 4 teams of 5. Is there a way to maximize the number of people playing and team size? I understand we want to make as few changes as possible so focusing on 6 player teams is ideal, but we also don't want Ladle to drag on with lots of specs because that's boring as shit.

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by vov »

We could plan for team sizes based on player number in advance, so there won't be any quarrel about them right at the event.

Example rule text (numbers made up, should probably be adjusted a bit to account for late players):

Players are counted at HH:MM GMT. Teams will be:
12 Players: 2 teams of 6
14 Players: 2 teams of 7
15 Players: 3 teams of 5, round robin
18 Players: 3 teams of 6, round robin
20 Players: 4 teams of 5
24 Players: 4 teams of 6
28 Players: 4 teams of 7
30 Players: 6 teams of 5, double elimination
36+ Players: 6+ teams of 6, double elimination
The rest are subs.

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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 108

Post by sinewav »

vov, I like your breakdown. If no one has anything to add on this detail I'll probably let the script make teams of six for now and if that feels weird in practice we can try flexible team sizes. I should have time to finish the bot on Saturday. I was supposed to have tomorrow off but I need to fix some things at work.

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by kyle »

compguygene wrote:To do list received. I will get on that tomorrow. I would suggest that Kyle do the same with his servers to be safe.
I'll try to get this done tomorrow night, bump me on IRC if I don't. (I'll update names to ladle 108 also)
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Re: Ladle 108

Post by vov »

If you want to voicechat at the ladle with your team, you can also try out the Discord channel. I can easily set up team channels and leaders and stuff for it. Link to join (works in a browser too): https://discord.gg/qr3z3dE

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by Vogue »

Ladle wouldn't have been so dead if you didn't ban me back in the day. Oh well, hope it was worth it! I'll be playing tomorrow probably to help out a friend, I think he pities this community and that's why he wants to play.

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by Ratchet »

Vogue wrote:Ladle wouldn't have been so dead if you didn't ban me back in the day. Oh well, hope it was worth it! I'll be playing tomorrow probably to help out a friend, I think he pities this community and that's why he wants to play.
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Re: Ladle 108

Post by sinewav »

I've got the LadleBot working in IRC. It only does one thing, that is, it takes a list of players and randomizes them into teams of at least six. The Team Leaders are added first for every team, in order, until each team has a leader. Then, the remaining players are randomized and added until the list runs out. This means the most eager Team Leaders should go at the top of the list (or first come, first serve). The randomization command is a simple, space delimited series of tokens:

Code: Select all

@randomize TLeader1 TLeader2 TLeader3 Player1 Player2 Player3 ... PlayerN
I have not transferred the bot to a server, so it will be running from my laptop and connecting to #armagetron.tourneys. It's not there now, but I'll set it up before morning.

For this very experimental Ladle I suggest those who arrive early try to corral everyone into one Ladle server. Spam the discord link and convince people to use it. Give yourself enough time for late players to show up then invoke the IRC-bot. In the event there are only three teams, play a round-robin event.

Be sure to leave detailed feedback for me because I won't be there tomorrow. My girlfriend asked me to go have brunch with her co-workers. I hope you guys have fun! 8)

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by compguygene »

sinewav wrote:Continuing the discussion from Ladle 107.

On the wiki, I have renamed Super Leaders back to Team Leaders. Now we need to give Team Leaders the authority they need to run a Ladle. Below are a few settings I have reduced from higher levels down to 7. What other commands would a Team Leader need access to? Are there any potential problems with the current config (104)? I'm not worried about abuse as much as efficiency.

Code: Select all

ACCESS_LEVEL_OP 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_COMMAND 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_COMMAND_EXECUTE 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_INCLUDE 7
ACCESS_LEVEL_VOTE_INCLUDE_EXECUTE 7
ACCESS_LEVEL SLAP 7
Since we are pretty much using Gene's servers exclusively I guess this the rest of this TODO list is for him:
  • :bdot: Update congifurations:
    /resource/compguygene/ladle/ladle108.cfg
    /resource/compguygene/ladle/LadleAuthorityV1_2.cfg
  • :bdot: Upgrade servers to 0.4 branch.
Now, my own personal TODO list involves finishing that IRC bot, then updating the Ladle Operations page once we have a working system. To keep things as simple as possible, something like this might work:
  • Team Leaders show up in IRC at Ladle start (18:00 GMT).
  • Assuming everyone has congregated in one of the Ladle servers, a Ladle Enthusiast creates a list of players with Team Leaders at the top. (Making a list quickly without mistakes will be a challenge.)
  • The list is run through a bot which tries to make teams of at least 6 players.
  • These teams are announced in the server, players divide up and proceed with the event.
Questions that need to be resolved:

Assuming the average Ladle will have between 12 and 24 players, in most cases the event will have either three or four teams. Should we abandon tournament brackets for a round-robin event? Three teams is not very fun with a bracket system. If we consistently have more than 24 players, single/double elimination would be good, but realistically the player base will slowly shrink rather than grow.

How do we accommodate alternate team generation methods? Some people would prefer #pickup style teams with captains or perhaps a system where players can have regular teammates. After all, part of the fun of team games is camaraderie.
The authority and config files are setup and the server is running .4. I only have the nyc server running at the moment.
Armagetron: It's a video game that people should just play and enjoy :)
https://bit.ly/2KBGYjvCheck out the simple site about TheServerPharm

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by vov »

We had 2 nice rounds of fort today (and some megafort afterparty of course)! All the matches were pretty close (100 - 70+) and full of action. We played 6v6s with plenty of subs arriving later on, and then afterwards did a second round with new teams as some were leaving. The randomizer worked perfectly. :)

Ladle 108 Match 1:
Team 1: 3
Andrei, Coco, karas, antigen, sw1ss, Ninja Potato, Nanu, Capone, tweezy
Team 2: 0
Force, Nate, nara, fackel, goy, Monkey, coni

Ladle 108 Match 2:
Team 1: 2
goy, Nate, Ninja Potato, Force, Monkey, chrisd, Murder, wulf
Team 2: 0
sw1ss, Word, nara, puma, DGM, fackel, Nanu

I took these from some screenies I took mid matches, so sorry if I forgot someone (maybe when someone watches the recordings they can confirm :))!

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Re: Ladle 108

Post by Z-Man »

And here they are:
match1.aarec 11340kb 1333s (dunno when it really starts)
match2.aarec 21624kb 2570s (starts right away)

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