Discussion about ladle 107

[compguygene]

Ok. A few Ladles ago sinewav brought up the idea that if we don't want the Ladle to go the way of the CTF Brawl and dying, we may need to make some changes, like setting up teams the day of the Ladle. Considering that the same few teams are competing now, it may be time to make that change before the remaining players get tired of playing the same teams vs each other.
Perhaps it is time to go to a format where teams are chosen based on who shows up. There are enough Ladle Servers that even if a surge of players show up, more teams could play than have in prior ladles. A player sign up sheet would be nice instead of team sign-ups to get people to commit.
Let's discuss this now to serve the needs of this small community the best.

[ConVicT]

This all sounds good, but what happens when you add players to teams and the players bugger off.
That being said, it could work. It worked for the last three CLASSIC submarine tourneys, where there were like 6 sign-ups but we always ended up with 16 players.
(it kind'a choked because of server issues, but that's besides the point!)

[niin]

This all sounds good, but what happens when you add players to teams and the players bugger off.

Well that is a risk.
I don't know how to solve that at the moment. Because first of all the question is if we stay with a team list and add a players list. With that we still have the problem with teams facing each other every time but otherwise some teams (clans, whatever) might want to play together.
If we only have a player list we have the problem that people can use aliases so nothing like a player rating system is possible. (Player Rating not based on "is good" and "sucks" more like "doesn't listen to team instas", "team kills" or "too late / didn't show up".) with what we could form teams that really want to play serious.
An "approval Ladle" for new players could be used where each month one super team leader (if that's still in the discussion) or one volunteer plays with new players to see if they're serious. If they are you can put them in the other teams with people playing Ladle for a while.
(even tho one Ladle might not be enough depending on who they play against)

[compguygene]

I would like to do my best to address the issues and move our discussion forward as quickly as possible. The goal is to resolve this with a week or less of discussion.
If we go this route, clans/teams/buddies will have to not be taken into consideration for the new Ladle format. However, considering how small our community is, and the fact that we could have a massive pick done by pre-selected team captains, those captains could influence the pick for similar outcomes. But honestly guys, I think you miss the point. The CTF Brawl died because in the end, Untitled or R won, with R winning always it seemed...BORING.
Think about it, let me pretend that I am a team leader. 3 other Ww's are playing. I could just look at the draft and pick the absolute best player as my first pick, maybe a Ww (I really like Syre) or maybe not. But, we all get to pick who we think is best. This is gonna really mix up the teams and lead to much more balanced teams than now. Heck, I might even end up on a winning Ladle team!
How about another benefit. 7 extra ppl show up. They just get thrown into the draft. voila an extra team!
This sounds like a much more fun Ladle to me.

[niin]

People picking teams is a great idea in my opinion. You just need to think of a way it could be done.
1. You need all team captains in one server at some time to make them choose one after another so they see who is left to go with
2. You need to do it early enough to communicate it with the people playing.

[compguygene]

My thought was to get everybody in one server. I will put up a server that 60 people can chat in. only one person will be able to play. That way only peoople actually there can be picked. Basically, show up by a certain time, be picked. Then everybody can be organized to go play.

[niin]

With that you could settle the team size to what ever fits best too. Like 36 people show up = 36/6 so you get 6 teams with 6 people or 35/7 and so on.
Would make it better for players that usually sub

[sinewav]

With that you could settle the team size to what ever fits best too.

Right. But one thing we should keep in mind is we are entering the Post-Ladle era. We need to start thinking about team games in Armagetron as a whole. Ladle is only one part of it. The challenge is to find a model that fits the player base and we may have to try a few things before we get it right.

I have a huge post coming with a lot of questions and few answers.

[compguygene]

Glad to see you on this topic, sine. I am looking forward to digesting your long post.

[Ratchet]

People picking teams is a great idea in my opinion. You just need to think of a way it could be done.
1. You need all team captains in one server at some time to make them choose one after another so they see who is left to go with
2. You need to do it early enough to communicate it with the people playing.

maybe an IRC bot that keeps track of who has picked who, who is still available to be picked, and who's pick it is.

trying to do these things in a server would take a minimum of 30 minutes with a sizable turnout

[compguygene]

People picking teams is a great idea in my opinion. You just need to think of a way it could be done.
1. You need all team captains in one server at some time to make them choose one after another so they see who is left to go with
2. You need to do it early enough to communicate it with the people playing.

maybe an IRC bot that keeps track of who has picked who, who is still available to be picked, and who's pick it is.

trying to do these things in a server would take a minimum of 30 minutes with a sizable turnout

Good point, I forgot about the advantages of an IRC bot. Plus, such a bot could be used for other tournaments.

[Monkey]

The thing to remember about IRC though is that it's a bit technical for some people...not everyone knows how to use it or even what it is.

[compguygene]

We could toss up a quick website on my webhosting to give them a way to get there easily with minimal fuss.

[Light]

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=a ... n.tourneys

[Monkey]

@Compguygene
That still does not really solve much in terms of technical difficulty for the kind of people I'm talking about, although it is better than nothing.