3 month review (forum split)

[Word]

For the record, everything Z-Man says is right and everything Nelg, Solutai et al. demand is wrong. Taz brought up a few things that were once discussion-worthy but have already been discussed. As for Durf: No. Go make your own project and put in the hands of someone like him if you don't have a problem with that. /Word out

[ConVicT]

For the record, everything Z-Man says is right and everything Nelg, Solutai et al. demand is wrong. Taz brought up a few things that were once discussion-worthy but have already been discussed. As for Durf: No. /Word out

Well, f**k me, if Word said it, I agree...
Still thinking your opinion counts, huh?

[Word]

Yeah, your opinion is as predictable as mine. I take it though, you think yours is more important and better founded although you're still far too lazy to even comprehend that he did something bad. Even after 6 months. You're that slow. That he got banned in spite of your highly qualified efforts should tell you enough to adjust your self-perception.

[ConVicT]

Difference between you and I is the fact that I've seen a lot of things that you haven't.
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I can tell you, you're in the dark here.

Anyways, you're saying this guy, that guy, and the other guy are all wrong,
They're wrong only in your eyes.
If you're making some crappy attempt at balancing the scales here, it's gonna take more that the almighty Word's opinion to change more than half the majority's

Why's this suddenly an argument?... I don't have a Word for it, it's somehow, what's that Word?...

[Z-Man]

Basically, you don't like his behavior.

That does not even begin to describe it. I meant what I wrote.

[Monkey]

There have been many people on board with having Armagetron on steam

I'm not one of them. Steam is proprietary software, which I don't want to be installing on my FOSS operating system, not that my OS is even supported by it. Steam is not the answer to our problems.

WHY THE **** ISN'T DURF A DEVELOPER YET?

Personally, I kinda like durf, however, I wouldn't want him as one of the head developers of this game, mainly because of the way he behaves but also because I'm not convinced he'd send the game in the correct direction.

[kyle]

Come on this topic was not started about Durf, Was not intended to be about Durf therefore stop talking about Durf; we all have our own views of him. We don't need to fight each other if we have differing views of a single player. This topic was about the competition form spit, but has became more of a what the game needs overall.

Since you did mention Durf, if he or anyone wants to create their own feature branches, I'm sure that code can be merged back into the mainline, assuming it does not break the views of what the community / developers want in the game. But any new codes should be based on 0.4 or trunk at this point else it's not really worth adding. pick up something mention in this topic Z-man was referring to, more specifically this post. If you need help, there is IRC and forum posts.

I'd like to work on zonesv2 sty again, with someone, parallel programming helps a lot. Let me know if someone wants to help.

[Word]

If you're making some crappy attempt at balancing the scales here, it's gonna take more that the almighty Word's opinion to change more than half the majority's

Right, the "majority". Oh yeah, I forgot almighty Convict thought only ten of those people are competent enough to say something at all and the rest are sheep, if one looks at the next posts in that thread. Done arguing here.

@kyle: that is great.

[Z-Man]

Come on this topic was not started about Durf, Was not intended to be about Durf therefore stop talking about Durf; we all have our own views of him.

Indeed. We had enough of that discussion. It's over and done. Don't make me stomp my moderator foot.

[ConVicT]

Don't make me stomp my moderator foot.

Well, we all know how that turns out, it outs no turn.
It's been proven that this game has came to a halt mainly because it's kind'a, sort'a, unreadable, indecipherable, unintelligible, incomprehensible, hieroglyphic (yes, it's every synonym for more impact), nonsensical, bullshit to most of our playerbase that may be able to contribute but can't make head nor tails, without being so thurer that they may aswell just code it themselves.
As you say:

That probably includes explaining the one or other logic behind an odd bit of old code.

That "bit" is a lot more than you say, IMO.

Word, why don't you just shh?
There's a difference in agreeing with something from the start, and joining in half way through with a suck-someone's-balls opinion.
Just refrain from sucking up asses please, it's not gonna get you anything.

[sinewav]

Well, if you guys are getting ramped up to finally push out .4, then I'll do whatever I can to help, which probably isn't much. You know what I can do, and if you need it, just ask.

[aP|Nelg]

Basically, you don't like his behavior. Don't be Mr. BigWords to try to confuse us.

That does not even begin to describe it. I meant what I wrote.

It actually meant that Z-Man doesn't care what people think and does what he wants. My bad. That's even worse than I thought. Thank you Z-Man for making yourself look worse.

Yeah, your opinion is as predictable as mine. I take it though, you think yours is more important and better founded although you're still far too lazy to even comprehend that he did something bad.

Yes, because saying words is so bad. I'm so glad you're bad, "Word". I'm glad you blindly trust everything you see... NOT!

They only wanted to MAKE Durf look bad. Durf didn't do anything wrong. They were TRYING to make Durf do something bad, but he didn't so they pretended he did. But hey, it got some positive effect on the forum, but it also got some negitive effect. It's always about Durf ever since he's been banned. If someone even SPEAKS of him, the whole forum is suddenly going crazy. The topic eventually becomes locked, then in turn, new topics start, and some of them turn into Durf complaining. I am tired of the community doing all this crap. Again, Durf has done more for ArmagetronAd than most of you guys.

The moderators pretty much do whatever they want. They moved the competition forum without input from the community, even though this is supposed to be a community based forum. They can't move it back because...? They don't CARE. Moving the Competitions forum has made this forums less active. I don't know a single person who liked that change. Before making so large of a change, CONSULT THE COMMUNITY.

For the record, everything Z-Man says is right and everything Nelg, Solutai et al. demand is wrong.

There you go again... Your opinion matters to so many people, doesn't it?

As for Durf: No. Go make your own project and put in the hands of someone like him if you don't have a problem with that

Have you not seen all that Durf has done? Melodious Tron, Admin Playground, Tunnel Trouble, Double Bind Challenge, /servers and /goto, a ban range script, the 1v1 challenging system, etc etc. And how you refuse Durf just like that? He's done more than you, what now? He wants to IMPROVE tron, but idiots like you reject that. There is a lot of jacked up buggy code, a lot of bugs that have been known for a long time, and guess what. The developers have done what about those bugs? Oh right, THEY DON'T CARE about tron. Most of you just aren't smart enough to realize this kind of stuff.

[ConVicT]

I agree with a lot of what you said but the way you put it makes me want to punch you in the face.
I don't know what it is, it's just Grrr!. Know that way?

[Word]

It actually meant that Z-Man doesn't care what people think and does what he wants. My bad. That's even worse than I thought. Thank you Z-Man for making yourself look worse.

Fine, I'll say one more thing, because you're so disrespectful towards everyone without any basis for that. In virtually all of your recent posts you demonstrated that you didn't read the whole conversation or have no real clue what is going on, so it's pointless to take you seriously most of the time. I understand everyone who doesn't. You can use caps all you want to highlight stuff, but we have read Durf's PMs and the posts. Durf himself admitted what he did, even though he saw nothing wrong in his actions. It all comes down to this: Do you trust someone who is willing to do something awful with your private data more than someone who has been running the project in a trustworthy way for more than a decade? There aren't two sides to that issue.

Most of you just aren't smart enough to realize this kind of stuff.

It probably never occured to you that you are not the only one who is aware of that discrepancy, but others recognize his behaviour here for what it is.

As for the competition forums, Z-Man and other devs opposed or criticized the move from the start, and now all of them are in favor of moving it back (something you could have found out yourself, if you had read any recent posts).

edits: changed the formatting a little.

[Overrated]

The moderators pretty much do whatever they want. They moved the competition forum without input from the community, even though this is supposed to be a community based forum. They can't move it back because...? They don't CARE. Moving the Competitions forum has made this forums less active. I don't know a single person who liked that change. Before making so large of a change, CONSULT THE COMMUNITY.

Might not be my place to jump in, but I feel the moderators for the most part do what they feel is best for the community. Was moving the forums, in a sense, the wrong decision? Maybe, but they (I feel Tank was the main person to come to this consensus, not every moderator) only did it thinking it would help the community and help development. If they had asked the community it would have come with an emphatic no and nothing would have been done from it, clearly from the responses done, but who knows if that really is how it would have ended.

Also do you really think they can't move it back (being the forums) because they don't care? I may be incorrect here, but I'm rather certain Z-man said he didn't have the authority to do that and is probably why it's not done yet. I'm pretty sure it was in this topic, and even reiterated once by someone else (Magi maybe?). I think the entire competitions section on this forum is locked, and Tank isn't probably as easily accessible as you guys wish he was; so it's not done. The best you can do for the time being is make posts in the general section if you are completely reluctant to use the other forums which work just as well.

You guys talk Durf up like he's a saint; he's not and no one is. Will you give it a rest? He pushed issues and it resulted in a ban. He was given warnings. He was given a chance to not have that happen. It ended poorly on his end, that is all. The moderators have the choice to give him a second chance. From my understanding he had ample opportunity to not have the result that he did and had already wasted his second chance. End of discussion. This is about the development of the game and the overlying forums debate (initial topic starter, which has basically come to a consensus).

We all need to understand the developers have their own things to deal with outside of tron. They will get to the game, which, from my understanding, comes a lot later on the totem pole of importance compared to supporting a family and dealing with the issues they have to deal with. If you're desperate for something new, then please promote a fork, make something yourself. Otherwise don't complain. The developers care about the game they have built, anyone would. They, and to repeat myself, have more important things to deal with in their lives and I'm sure they're eager to get things rolling again when they get the opportunity. At least show respect to them on a humane level. It's an open source game and they have even said they are willing to pass the torch and to support anyone if they are proven to be able to sufficiently provide for the game itself, or of any fork created. No one has done so yet, successfully. The closest thing they had was Tr2n Origins, which was basically a rehashed AA. It flopped with good reason, which has been brought up before. Regardless, the least you can do is speak to them on a humane level instead of a degrading and snarky one. This is meant to be a discussion, not an argument.

Can we, as a community, keep the focus on the development of the game before this gets out of hand again. If you think you or another individual has a good idea, then forward it to the developers, make a post, or just do something to get it out there. I imagine they have enough of an open-mind, especially if it comes to bettering the development of the game to listen and possibly implement something.