im not registering

[Soul]

We need to integrate/centralise, not separate/decentralise.

precisely

separating is only going to hurt the already declining number of players. use your goddamn heads next time and maybe ask the community before you do something so foolish.

[pike]

+1 to what Monkey said

Another forum could be a good idea 2-3 years ago when we had a tournament almost every weekend and much more people participating, but at this moment it's pointless IMO.

[Word]

It seems completely OK to me.
Well, Tank can do whatever he wants and any forum for competitions is better than none at all. I think it's in our best interest if the competitions are outsourced and the moderators here can concentrate on developping the game while the player-community can deal with their own problems. I'm just a little surprised that nobody was asked beforehand and that it was done on first april (I also thought it was a joke), but then again, why would they have to? Come on, we don't need to bother anyone with this.

They don't owe us anything, so the least we can do is leave their forums less cluttered with topics which don't concern them and not asking them to manage our conflicts. Think of it as a way to make things easier for both sides. I mean, so far, the only argument for keeping it here is "too few people participate" ("it should stay here"/"we need to centralize" are just repeating the original demand). Yes, and why should those few keep an entire forum hostage whenever drama arises, effectively undermining the progress of the game itself?

[vov]

That's a good point there, Word.

[Word]

Plus, self-organization and decentralization was always at the heart of the whole Open-Source/Ladle idea, if you begin to cite tradition etc.; being too lazy to register is no excuse for those who want to keep the tournament going.

[xXSyagehtllikXx]

To many competitions killed this shit in the first place.

[Tank Program]

I consider this a trial period of seperating things out. I don't see a particular reason the community based competitions have to be here any more. Yes it may be convenient because "everyone is already registered here" but I think for a lot of players they registered specifically for the competitions. If the competitions move, so do the players. As a result I see seperating things out as a chance to grow if people embrace it. A chance for new players to become more active without having to trawl through a decades worth of unrelated crap.

[xXSyagehtllikXx]

I consider this a trial period of seperating things out. I don't see a particular reason the community based competitions have to be here any more. Yes it may be convenient because "everyone is already registered here" but I think for a lot of players they registered specifically for the competitions. If the competitions move, so do the players. As a result I see seperating things out as a chance to grow if people embrace it. A chance for new players to become more active without having to trawl through a decades worth of unrelated crap.

There are no new players.

[Word]

says guy with 12 posts registered in 2015

[S0lutai]

says guy with 12 posts registered in 2015

He's got a point though, personally, I don't see the community growing up that much, it's the opposite thing, we've been losing instead of winning, in fact, I could count the new players in armagetron (fort and sumo wise, to be exact) with the fingers of my right hand.

[Monkey]

decentralization was always at the heart of the whole Open-Source...

Linux may use the decentralised model of development (which is crap, as is Linux, in my opinion) but plenty of open source projects don't.

I don't see a particular reason the community based competitions have to be here any more. I think for a lot of players they registered specifically for the competitions.

Your assumption is wrong, which shows that you don't know this game's community very well. I suspect this has a lot to do with the fact that you don't play the game (I'm not saying that you should but the point is still valid). I'd say that the majority of the (non-trolling) people that have registered here are very interested in both competitions and development within the game.

I see seperating things out as a chance to grow if people embrace it. A chance for new players to become more active without having to trawl through a decades worth of unrelated crap.

On these forums, every search shows most recent results first, every forum shows most recent posts first and there is a "view new posts" link which does very well what it says on the tin. There is no requirement for anyone to "trawl through a decades worth of unrelated crap".

If the competitions move, so do the players.

I believe that certainly part of the reason that you have split the forums up is that you don't want to have to deal with the troublesome people that post on these forums; instead hoping to get rid of them to another forums.

Well, these are your forums so you can do what you want. I feel, however, that what these forums really need is more moderators and much stricter moderation.

[Light]

If the competitions move, so do the players.

I believe that certainly part of the reason that you have split the forums up is that you don't want to have to deal with the troublesome people that post on these forums; instead hoping to get rid of them to another forums.

Well, these are your forums so you can do what you want. I feel, however, that what these forums really need is more moderators and much stricter moderation.

Can you blame him? With your earlier text as a point, they don't really get into the game itself, but development of it. This way, they can pass off the responsibility of dealing with issues that arise from something that's run by the community. The ones taking part will be the ones that handle it. Kind of what you wanted, right? I know, it's in a different way, but I think it still works.

As for more mods, it would probably help. Or at least another mod that is quite active. I know dlh takes care of quite a bit, then Luci and Z-Man were kind of the "face of moderation" as the public talkers. Dunno what the right answer is really.

[Monkey]

I don't agree with you Light, this is not a good solution for the problem in hand because, like I've already said, many of these "players" are also interested in the development side of things. Durf is a good example of this. Do you think that Durf signed up for only the competition side of things? No. He loves the developing side of things too and would have still been on these forums even if there would have been a separate competition forums.

Now, I know that, as he said himself, Tank doesn't like moderating. The good news is that he barely needs to. He is the forums administrator. All he needs to do is to appoint more moderators and tell them how to moderate, then they do the moderating, hence their name. The only uneasy part for Tank is dealing with moderators if they moderate incorrectly.

The fact that you aren't getting is that, even if the forums remain split, *these* forums *need* more moderators and stricter moderation. If this doesn't happen, these forums will eventually go to pot. Note that moderators don't have to be developers (they currently seem to be only developers) . There are people that don't do much actual development who play the game and visit these forums a lot and would make good moderators.

Edit: I've just had an idea. How about making Z-man the "Head moderator" and the regular moderators deal with him instead of Tank. That way, Tank only has to deal with Z-Man.
Also, as for people that would make good moderators, off the top of my head: Light, sinewav, Venijn (Venom), vov (ninja potato)...

[Word]

If you're interested in development you can still be here. Who says you can't?
And why should the developers deal with the competition trouble? Is there any reason they should? The forums don't need more moderation if the group with the most hotly debated topics finally starts to grow up and manage itself in a place just for them. That also means all the Ladle-related drama won't make the main forums look bad and cause actual developers to lose time. Ww's CTF tournaments went on for years without anyone posting about them here, and there were just a few people in charge. The ladle, I think, still has a much broader player base. And you're saying yourself that the devs were too detached from the active community, so why do you even have an interest that they deal with all this if you know the ladle better than they do?

[sinewav]

Ww's CTF tournaments went on for years without anyone posting about them here, and there were just a few people in charge.

Great points Word. Lagtest.net was the hub for literally half the competitions in Arma. They had CTF and Sumo tournaments every month. The only thing the main forums were used for was Ladle, and even the TST, AFL, and other tournaments had stand-alone sites with individual logins for each. Never had a problem then, this shouldn't be a problem now.