Durf Ban Appeal

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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

F0RC3 wrote: No I read it correctly. It is still sexist regardless. You should hold the opinions of people, equally (well i mean of course hold them higher or lower depending on how well they argue for their opinion). You shouldn't hold their opinions higher on women's oppression for the multitude of reasons that I presented already. Hold them equally, that is equal. Let the person's argument speak for its self, not their gender.
Except that in a society that continually regards women's opinions as inferior, the only way to ensure equality is to purposefully give women a chance to speak up. They're used to being ignored, so they don't have much incentive to speak up. In order for us to hear their voices, we must make special arrangements to ensure they can speak and that we will listen.

That's what it means when you have to surrender some male privilege. You have to shut the **** up.
I see sexism every day too, sexism exists in this society. It will likely always exist in some small facet, but will eventually get as close to equality as possible.
And banning Durf is a small step towards achieving that.
The same jobs as men? I'm not going to argue that they aren't fit for working all the same jobs as men, but on average women definitely are not as fit as men towards some things. Men are typically born with the ability to become stronger than a woman of the same age. On average they are stronger physically, which can be advantageous for men in some job situations (where as normal women would have to try extremely hard to improve their strength)
I call bullshit. There isn't a job on the planet that a man has a strength advantage over a woman.

I'm a mechanic. I do things that involve great feats of strength every day of my life. And there's not a damn bit of it that a woman can't do. We always say "work smarter, not harder". A woman with the same approach can do as much work as I do, if not more.
Check my privilege? I realize as a white male I have a pretty nice life. But just because I'm a white male, that doesn't mean I can't argue for an opinion that I feel isn't sexist. That doesn't mean that because I disagree with a woman it makes me sexist. It simply doesn't.
Casual sexism. You don't even know you're doing it. And there's no amount of arguing I can do that will show it to you. Will you hit a girl? Would you do so in self-defense? How much of a beating do you have to receive from a girl before you'll fight back? Compare that to what you'd accept from a boy.

I'm not saying you're maliciously sexist. In fact, based on what you say, it sounds very much like you don't wish to be sexist. How can you be completely certain you've rooted out the casual sexism in your views? I see that it's still there, you say it's not.

How can you be sure?
Okay a one day ban? I don't think he deserved any ban what so ever. One day ban itself is too much. I'm not saying that not being able to post is harsh, but the point is he shouldn't have been banned in the first place, that's why people are revolting.
If you said the n-word and got a one day ban, would people revolt?

People think a one-day ban is too much, and for what? Because he said sexist things? Because he came straight out and said that women aren't nearly as good at being doctors as men?

If I gave you a one-day ban for saying that women make better secretaries than men, would we get the same kind of revolt?
TBH I'm finding that you are being sexist towards men...
The typical Men's Rights Activist line. You feel oppressed because you're being asked to give up some of your male privilege so that women can be more equal.

I've heard it. I don't care.

I've already given up my male privilege. When you can show the balls that I've already shown, perhaps we can discuss this further.

It's worth pointing out at this juncture that everytime there's a discussion, the spam gets worse.

Get your side in order! If you wish to have a reasonably discussion, then find the source of this spam and get it to stop.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Gazelle »

Durf doesn't deserve a ban, what he has said to liz or anyone else is only like 1/4th that Liz has ever said to anyone on this forums..

I don't agree with half of what he said but this ban is absurd..

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Last edited by Gazelle on Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

Soul wrote: Anyway I've made my point and the community has given their opinion as well. You have abused your power and unjustly banned Durf based on your own bias.

You've been served.
No, you just don't know. The "community" you refer to is like 4 people. I've also gotten messages of support from people who are afraid to say something publicly.

And I'm not accusing anybody specifically of the spam, but if you want it to stop, you'll do something to find out who it is (like, I don't know, talk to Durf? It's either him or this Hitler fella, pretty sure)
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

Gazelle wrote:Durf doesn't deserve a ban, what he has said to liz or anyone else is only like 1/4th that Liz has ever said to anyone on this forums..

I don't agree with half of what he said but this ban is absurd..
The difference is that Durf is generally viewed as an "intellectual" around here, respected for his views. So if he says anything negative, it means a lot more than someone like Liz, who is perceived as a pariah, someone who trolls for fun (because it IS fun).

But in this case, she's right to call him out for being sexist.

You'd rather engage in ad hominem attacks against Liz. She's not generally a credible source for anything, and that is true, but in this case, she's spot on RIGHT.

Deal with it.

And please, someone note that the spammer gets worse the more I talk. I suspect it's because I'm winning the argument (an argument I already won, if there's to be a victor). He's a Republican, isn't he?
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by |CPU| »

Lucifer wrote:"disagreeing with me".
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by F0RC3 »

Lucifer wrote:
F0RC3 wrote: No I read it correctly. It is still sexist regardless. You should hold the opinions of people, equally (well i mean of course hold them higher or lower depending on how well they argue for their opinion). You shouldn't hold their opinions higher on women's oppression for the multitude of reasons that I presented already. Hold them equally, that is equal. Let the person's argument speak for its self, not their gender.
Except that in a society that continually regards women's opinions as inferior, the only way to ensure equality is to purposefully give women a chance to speak up. They're used to being ignored, so they don't have much incentive to speak up. In order for us to hear their voices, we must make special arrangements to ensure they can speak and that we will listen.

That's what it means when you have to surrender some male privilege. You have to shut the **** up.
I see sexism every day too, sexism exists in this society. It will likely always exist in some small facet, but will eventually get as close to equality as possible.
And banning Durf is a small step towards achieving that.
The same jobs as men? I'm not going to argue that they aren't fit for working all the same jobs as men, but on average women definitely are not as fit as men towards some things. Men are typically born with the ability to become stronger than a woman of the same age. On average they are stronger physically, which can be advantageous for men in some job situations (where as normal women would have to try extremely hard to improve their strength)
I call bullshit. There isn't a job on the planet that a man has a strength advantage over a woman.

I'm a mechanic. I do things that involve great feats of strength every day of my life. And there's not a damn bit of it that a woman can't do. We always say "work smarter, not harder". A woman with the same approach can do as much work as I do, if not more.
Check my privilege? I realize as a white male I have a pretty nice life. But just because I'm a white male, that doesn't mean I can't argue for an opinion that I feel isn't sexist. That doesn't mean that because I disagree with a woman it makes me sexist. It simply doesn't.
Casual sexism. You don't even know you're doing it. And there's no amount of arguing I can do that will show it to you. Will you hit a girl? Would you do so in self-defense? How much of a beating do you have to receive from a girl before you'll fight back? Compare that to what you'd accept from a boy.

I'm not saying you're maliciously sexist. In fact, based on what you say, it sounds very much like you don't wish to be sexist. How can you be completely certain you've rooted out the casual sexism in your views? I see that it's still there, you say it's not.

How can you be sure?
Okay a one day ban? I don't think he deserved any ban what so ever. One day ban itself is too much. I'm not saying that not being able to post is harsh, but the point is he shouldn't have been banned in the first place, that's why people are revolting.
If you said the n-word and got a one day ban, would people revolt?

People think a one-day ban is too much, and for what? Because he said sexist things? Because he came straight out and said that women aren't nearly as good at being doctors as men?

If I gave you a one-day ban for saying that women make better secretaries than men, would we get the same kind of revolt?
TBH I'm finding that you are being sexist towards men...
The typical Men's Rights Activist line. You feel oppressed because you're being asked to give up some of your male privilege so that women can be more equal.

I've heard it. I don't care.

I've already given up my male privilege. When you can show the balls that I've already shown, perhaps we can discuss this further.

It's worth pointing out at this juncture that everytime there's a discussion, the spam gets worse.

Get your side in order! If you wish to have a reasonably discussion, then find the source of this spam and get it to stop.
Surrendering my male privilege means I have to shut the **** up? Lol no. I can express my opinions as much as I want. Women can express their opinions as much as they want. Whether or not they get heard, should not depend on their gender, but on the argument they make for their opinion. We shouldn't have to give up our right to speak, they have the right to speak as well, if they think they aren't being heard they should speak up. And you know what? They are being heard, That is why these things are such an issue right now. Because they are being heard, they are making their voice known. That doesn't mean men should stop expressing their opinions so that woman can express theirs. I don't view women's opinions as inferior, it seems your the one with that problem.

Why is banning durf a small step towards achieving that? From what I can tell, practically everyone is against you. He was expressing his opinions, and if you thought him to be wrong than beat the shit out of his argument with your own. Don't ban him. Regardless of what he said, he expressed his opinions, and back them up. he wasn't threatening people or anything like that. I don't find a simple opinion is deserving of a ban.

You think I'm being casually sexist? No, I am a human. I realize that i have faults. I realize that i think sexist thoughts, i think racist thoughts. However with the brain people can do this thing called controlling what they say or do, regardless of what they think. I realize I have racist and sexist thoughts, quite often. I even make jokes about them all the time, because simply put it is funny. However, that doesn't mean in deep thought I find it right to be racist or sexist. It is clearly wrong. If anyone is being casually sexist it is you. I have pointed out in several spots where you have been sexist towards men. You are so hypocritical, yet you don't even see it.

You're a mechanic cool. Nice for you. I'm sure it involves plenty of heavy lifting. My aunt worked a jackhammer for many years, something a lot of the men didn't think she could do. But she did it. However she had to work significantly harder toward doing it. Most men are born with the ability to be stronger than most woman if they put in the same amount of effort, that is a simple fact. You cannot deny this.

Of course I feel oppressed in some things. Women have privilege over men in several things too you know, I have even provided an example of this. However the reason I said you are being the one sexist is because you are, and I have pointed out those situations. Being for women's rights does not mean you have to be sexist towards men. Of course in the process of women gaining equality men are going to lose some privilege, but in the same regard women are going to lose some of their privilege heading towards equality. Given up your male privilege? No. That is not what you have done. You hold women higher in regards to certain situations, you have said this yourself. What you have done is thrown away your male privilege and have become an advocate for matriarchy. You are telling me, a man to shut the **** up. Why because I am a man? If I was a woman, you would not be telling me to shutup. That right there is sexism sir.

I'm sorry for the spam, but it isn't related to me. Regardless of the side, the spammer needs to stop. It isn't my job to put a stop to the spamming. You're the moderator. Do your job and moderate the posts (though to be fair there are a lot of them, so I can't fully blame you.)

edit: Also this will be my last post for now. I'm off to run crota's end raid on destiny. I'll respond more afterwards though, if the topic isn't locked.
Last edited by F0RC3 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Gazelle »

Okay, but then shouldn't Durf of gotten a fair warning? Sorry but your logic makes zero sense, if Durf is such a saint in the community then he shouldn't be banned for one offense, right? If Liz is such a repeat offender and does it all the time, shouldn't she be banned? Or do you have a hard on for liz?
Lucifer wrote:Deal with it.
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Last edited by Gazelle on Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

F0RC3 wrote: Surrendering my male privilege means I have to shut the **** up? Lol no. I can express my opinions as much as I want. Women can express their opinions as much as they want. Whether or not they get heard, should not depend on their gender, but on the argument they make for their opinion. We shouldn't have to give up our right to speak, they have the right to speak as well, if they think they aren't being heard they should speak up. And you know what? They are being heard, That is why these things are such an issue right now. Because they are being heard, they are making their voice known. That doesn't mean men should stop expressing their opinions so that woman can express theirs. I don't view women's opinions as inferior, it seems your the one with that problem.
Thinking you can express your opinion as much as you want is NOT surrendering your male privilege, it is ENFORCING it.

As I said before, many women don't express their opinions because they've had entire lives full of conditioning that their opinions aren't important. It has been proven time and time again that in social situations, male voices prevail over female voices.

These are facts. Do you deny them? Do you really shut your mouth and listen to the women in your social groups?
Why is banning durf a small step towards achieving that? From what I can tell, practically everyone is against you. He was expressing his opinions, and if you thought him to be wrong than beat the shit out of his argument with your own. Don't ban him. Regardless of what he said, he expressed his opinions, and back them up. he wasn't threatening people or anything like that. I don't find a simple opinion is deserving of a ban.
From what I can see, there are roughly four people opposing me.

I DID beat the shit out of his argument with my own. He persisted, even to the point of PM'ing me more abusive shit.

He didn't have a "simple opinion". He casually stepped on every single woman that plays this game. He told each and every one of them that they can't be doctors, that they're better suited to other tasks. For someone who grows up a woman, that means, whether you like it or not, that they should be barefoot and pregnant.

Want an example? Google up "God made girls". It's a country song that expresses everything women learn.

While you're at it, watch Madonna's video for "What's it like for a girl".

I doubt you'll learn anything, though.
You think I'm being casually sexist? No, I am a human. I realize that i have faults. I realize that i think sexist thoughts, i think racist thoughts. However with the brain people can do this thing called controlling what they say or do, regardless of what they think. I realize I have racist and sexist thoughts, quite often. I even make jokes about them all the time, because simply put it is funny. However, that doesn't mean in deep thought I find it right to be racist or sexist. It is clearly wrong. If anyone is being casually sexist it is you. I have pointed out in several spots where you have been sexist towards men. You are so hypocritical, yet you don't even see it.
It's not hypocritical to give women a superior voice when the question is women's rights. Period.
You're a mechanic cool. Nice for you. I'm sure it involves plenty of heavy lifting. My aunt worked a jackhammer for many years, something a lot of the men didn't think she could do. But she did it. However she had to work significantly harder toward doing it. Most men are born with the ability to be stronger than most woman if they put in the same amount of effort, that is a simple fact. You cannot deny this.
I can do one better than you. This is a hormone controlled thing. Transgender men, after receiving hormones, go through a period of huge pain while their muscles rearrange themselves, to become stronger in the way that men are naturally stronger than women. It's a painful process, takes a lot of courage to see through, and people born with vaginas do it daily because they were supposed to be born boys.

It's all hormones. None of it is genetic.
Of course I feel oppressed in some things. Women have privilege over men in several things too you know, I have even provided an example of this. However the reason I said you are being the one sexist is because you are, and I have pointed out those situations. Being for women's rights does not mean you have to be sexist towards men. Of course in the process of women gaining equality men are going to lose some privilege, but in the same regard women are going to lose some of their privilege heading towards equality. Given up your male privilege? No. That is not what you have done. You hold women higher in regards to certain situations, you have said this yourself. What you have done is thrown away your male privilege and have become an advocate for matriarchy. You are telling me, a man to shut the **** up. Why because I am a man? If I was a woman, you would not be telling me to shutup. That right there is sexism sir.
Never in western history have men had to amend a constitution to gain the right to vote.

In other situations, when the issue was male-centered, I have told women to shut the **** up. For example, when I point out that 90% of divorces with kids have the woman getting the kid. Most of those are uncontested, but in the ones that are contested, 70% of the women still get the kids. I've told many a woman who had an opinion to shut her pie hole about it. It's clear discrimination, something YOU brought up.

And you miss the point. The REASON women win is because they are viewed as the "barefoot and pregnant" people. They're the ones who are expected to devote their live to their kids, while men are expected to be part-time parents.

Yes, it's an inequality that hurts men more than women. But the base of the inequality is STILL sexist. The reason this inequality exists is sexism.

Men are punished by sexism, as well.

Hell, look at school dress codes. This is an ongoing topic in my home. I have a daughter who just turned 15 who can't even fathom why the clothes she wears should distract boys from their work, because she thinks boys should focus on their work regardless of their surroundings. I wholeheartedly agree with her. Yet, she's the one who gets policed. That's what dress codes are.
I'm sorry for the spam, but it isn't related to me. Regardless of the side, the spammer needs to stop. It isn't my job to put a stop to the spamming. You're the moderator. Do your job and moderate the posts (though to be fair there are a lot of them, so I can't fully blame you.)
An argument that would be made by a spammer.
edit: Also this will be my last post for now. I'm off to run crota's end raid on destiny. I'll respond more afterwards though, if the topic isn't locked.
Have fun with that.

Gazelle: For all intents and purposes, just assume I have a hard-on for Liz. Since you put it that way.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Gazelle »

Is that all you care to take from my post? You have no comments on the decision to ban Durf after one offense after you call him basically a valued member of our community? As opposed to liz who is a repeat offender?

Your methods are flawed and you should instead of cherry picking comments actually respond to the whole.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

Gazelle wrote:Is that all you care to take from my post? You have no comments on the decision to ban Durf after one offense after you call him basically a valued member of our community? As opposed to liz who is a repeat offender?

Your methods are flawed and you should instead of cherry picking comments actually respond to the whole.
That's pretty much all you said.

However, while Durf may post things that are "intellectual" and people actually care about, I read a lot of things that if he had said them in person to me, he wouldn't have left in anything but a gurney.

Think about that. I'm not a violent person.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Soul »

Lucifer: this is my only reaction to everything you say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHqgHFcmAOc
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

So, you're suggesting you might be coming around?
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Soul »

Lucifer wrote:So, you're suggesting you might be coming around?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

#freedurf
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Lucifer »

How about I just ban everybody that supports Durf?

It won't be a one day ban, not this time. I gave him a one day ban as a shot across his bow that maybe he should rethink being a sexist pig for 24 hours.

I've said what I have to say. You can either behave accordingly (whether or not you agree with me), or I can choose the nuclear option.

Sexism has never been tolerated here.
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Re: Durf Ban Appeal

Post by Gazelle »

Lucifer wrote:How about I just ban everybody that supports Durf?

It won't be a one day ban, not this time. I gave him a one day ban as a shot across his bow that maybe he should rethink being a sexist pig for 24 hours.

I've said what I have to say. You can either behave accordingly (whether or not you agree with me), or I can choose the nuclear option.

Sexism has never been tolerated here.

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