Vogue Ban Appeal [DISCUSSION]

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Gonzap
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Gonzap »

Dude gazelle stop posting the same lie over and over again, it's getting on my nerves. Where the fck is it written down that she will bring another team to the ladle? How could you possibly know? Because she says so? Yeah that sounds logic. And why does it really fcking matter if she brings another team if it'll last one month as most of the teams/clans she's been involved with?

I'm losing faith in the community, I might say fck it and stop playing ladle as well if she gets away with it.

The video wasn't funny, it was a big fck you to the whole community that takes ladle seriously.

Oparachukwu
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Oparachukwu »

Some of you are very fickle. And Gonzap I am positive she will produce another team, she noted it on my forums :P
@Gazelle: You've been very repetitive. Did Liz pay you to say this :D

Vogue isn't the only negative influence on tron. I remember the good 'ol days when she tried to cut ass on me. Tron cannot exist with only positive people. We need negative influences to maintain balance. Besides if liz was unbanned, I'm sure tens of you would be dying to be on her team. I would too, but I'm really bad at fortress so it can't work. :oops: And honestly, these discussions are getting boring. All you guys talk about are possibilities. Can someone take some sort of action and resolve this mess. Many of us are dying to see the outcome of all of this.
Karma wrote:Opara : Joined dL in the middle of 2011 , Left in the beginning of 2012 , Clan less atm
More info : started out as a trainee. Then got way better. Somehow He is really good at fort lol
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Gazelle
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Gazelle »

I am assuming she will bring another team to ladle? As no other team will likely pick her up? Once that happens she will go out of her way to make a team. Whether she does or doesn't I don't care. But hopefully will and I would be down to take that risk.

No Opara, actually I haven't talked to her about any of this at all, we barely ever talk, today was the first time in a rather long time.

Anyways.. Where am I lying? Please enlighten me.

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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Oparachukwu »

Gazelle wrote:I am assuming she will bring another team to ladle? As no other team will likely pick her up? Once that happens she will go out of her way to make a team. Whether she does or doesn't I don't care. But hopefully will and I would be down to take that risk.

No Opara, actually I haven't talked to her about any of this at all, we barely ever talk, today was the first time in a rather long time.

Anyways.. Where am I lying? Please enlighten me.
It was a rhetorical question. And you are lying, I can feel your racing heartbeat. :D :D
Karma wrote:Opara : Joined dL in the middle of 2011 , Left in the beginning of 2012 , Clan less atm
More info : started out as a trainee. Then got way better. Somehow He is really good at fort lol
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Gazelle
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Gazelle »

The lying part was to Gonzap :)

Most definitely lying though ;)

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Ratchet
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Ratchet »

Word wrote:The idea that she enriches the game is ridiculous. She's neither the cause nor the solution for armagetron's problems, just a particularly annoying person who got a penalty she deserved, then circumvented that and already asked for mercy, while retaining her claims how the ladle was dead and she was less responsible than the teams who let her play. Durf is spot on. Once you cave in, she'll just return to her usual routine. If she were sorry she'd accept the ban.

If you ask me, her defenders are short-sighted idiots, all of them. Nonetheless, even though I think it's not really worth the effort, the best you can do is discuss guidelines and then vote. I'd vote first though, as if the guideline was already in place. We don't need five extra-pages of rules just for Liz and her suck-ups.
Snxpflash wrote:she's doing more than most of you here crying about "how bad of a person" she is.
Like what? Most of the guys who opposed her appeal in this thread, especially sine, are the ones who helped organize ladles long before you even started taking part and played a far more important role than Liz ever did (even Durf, who is quite new, has done more for the community than Liz did in 5 years; where's the tronny for that?). If anything, that mysterious contribution of hers should be brought forward to plead for her instead of a generic audio file. She should have thought about her place in the community before acting the way she did.
That's pretty much all I would say, also. This thread is pretty disappointing. I agree with Durf when he stated that the majority of you value skill over character. That's a terrible way to expand our community.
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compguygene
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by compguygene »

Action is being taken. First we have to vote in a new process, then we can follow said process.
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Lucifer
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Lucifer »

/dev/null wrote:If you need unbanned, you are indeed a woman.

Lets snuggle.
Hilarous. I believe my kids would say "I ship those two."
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woof
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by woof »

Let the ban stick. Punishments are punishments and history has repeated itself too often.

Venijn
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Venijn »

Well, I've been this thread with a degree of disappointment; lots of pages, nothing really said, but it's a thread you can't ignore.

Personally, I understand Liz's appeals, but the fact she's been coming on just to make snidey comments or ones that can be perceived that way have kinda undermined her really. You don't seem serious about this at all, so why should we be?

The most telling thing for me is that there's been a huge amount of talk about the community, yet when a fairly new player on the fort scene makes what is probably the best and clearest argument, those that disagree with him simply do so because he is new, and that's the only response he should expect to receive. (Those that agreed are noted too.)
Snxpflash wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Literally everything Gazelle just said.. The people defending Vogue (mainly) are players who'v largely contributed to building teams for ladle. Those of us who WANT TO PLAY and want to REBUILD are tired of the BS.. just F'ing let her play and lets all pull together and start rebuilding our ladle popularity. Vogue isnt just a 'player' she's smart and willing to contribute in other ways too. We need all we can get, and frankly banned or not.. she's doing more than most of you here crying about "how bad of a person" she is.

Sine, You have stated in several different ways how you pretty much are done with Ladles
Durf, You are just recently becoming involved with the Ladle community.

We do not need ANYONE to convince us of all the reasons Vogue shouldnt play.. we already know those reasons LOL. But the reasons she should play outweigh them.. right now. If you cant see that keeping her banned has no benefit to ladle.. then you probably dont really care about ladle and just want to complain.

Let her play.
I want to comment on this post in particular.

Thump, thee people who voted for the ban are/were active tronners who participate/d in multiple Ladles. To suggest that the only people who want the ban to remain is a bit moot when it was voted in by those very people. Captains represented the clans, it was a community vote.

The other thing is that yes, you may be aware of those reasons, but other than Liz creating a competitive team, I am yet to see any other argument as to what she will bring to the table. At this point, I would suggest the you have the "outweighing" statistic the wrong way around. A lot of people in this thread have remained dedicated to the game for years, and actually still play. Is the occasional post a bigger contribution to the community than say, durf, the new guy you so quickly dismissed (who isn't actually new at all and has contributed way more than more people in this thread ever will)

I personally think that any additional player who plays in ladle can be a positive thing in the right circumstances. However, it only takes one person to spoil things for everyone. I'm waiting for better arguments before the vote to make a balanced decision, was we all should, but the No camp are winning by some distance at this point.

There will always be a problem as long as people are valued more for their skill than their intelligence or morals.
Gazelle wrote:Listen, is it the right thing to do to unban Vogue? Probably not
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Snxpflash »

You misread what I meant, but I also wasnt very clear.. My point bringing those 2 players to mind was more or less to say.. Those who play competitive ladle/fortress actively.. right now.. really should have the most say in anything that directly affects ladle. For a very long time Sine had a huge part in both organizing and playing.. but right now he doesnt. Durf has done a lot of awesome things for the community however when it comes to Ladle specifically he hasnt really been around. Both of those people just like to argue and gloat. Those of us defending Liz are not really defending Liz.. we just wanna play Ladle and will do whatever it takes to get even so little as 1 additional Team added to the ladle brackets! If Liz cant build a team of her own.. she will have somewhere to play.. 1 way or another she as well as anyone at all to join the Ladle bracket is 1 more player we need to add to ladle attendance.

Really, If you want your opinion to really be heard.. how about everyone who's posted in this thread play in the next ladle! Build a Team! Join a Team! Who cares, just come play.. thats the whole point!

Venijn
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Venijn »

Snxpflash wrote:You misread what I meant, but I also wasnt very clear.. My point bringing those 2 players to mind was more or less to say.. Those who play competitive ladle/fortress actively.. right now.. really should have the most say in anything that directly affects ladle. For a very long time Sine had a huge part in both organizing and playing.. but right now he doesnt. Durf has done a lot of awesome things for the community however when it comes to Ladle specifically he hasnt really been around. Both of those people just like to argue and gloat. Those of us defending Liz are not really defending Liz.. we just wanna play Ladle and will do whatever it takes to get even so little as 1 additional Team added to the ladle brackets! If Liz cant build a team of her own.. she will have somewhere to play.. 1 way or another she as well as anyone at all to join the Ladle bracket is 1 more player we need to add to ladle attendance.

Really, If you want your opinion to really be heard.. how about everyone who's posted in this thread play in the next ladle! Build a Team! Join a Team! Who cares, just come play.. thats the whole point!
I only really agree with your last sentence.

I think every stakeholder should have a say. Nobody is suggesting that active players wont have a say anyway, as they're the ones who'll be voting. Durf's contribution is wholly irrelevant when considering what he has to say. no gloating, no arguing. Still ignored.

What would you say to people who might... stop participating in Ladle if her Ban is lifted? there's a cost to every decision.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just playing Devils Advocate I guess.
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Oparachukwu
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by Oparachukwu »

I think we should include this. Here is a discussion about Vogue on the fast track forums. It's great to invite some more players' thoughts whose voices are unheard because they are "neophytic" to fort.
Karma wrote:Opara : Joined dL in the middle of 2011 , Left in the beginning of 2012 , Clan less atm
More info : started out as a trainee. Then got way better. Somehow He is really good at fort lol
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takburger
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by takburger »

Oparachukwu wrote:I think we should include this. Here is a discussion about Vogue on the fast track forums. It's great to invite some more players' thoughts whose voices are unheard because they are "neophytic" to fort.
I'm pretty amazed they don't even post here yet they read everything and comment somewhere else.

The underlying meaning is crazy about how they feel outside this community but are interested in it. That's sad.
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THEred
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Re: Vogue's Apology [DISCUSSION]

Post by THEred »

Gazelle wrote:Listen, is it the right thing to do to unban Vogue? Probably not
Snxpflash wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Literally everything Gazelle just said..
this made me lol.
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