Vogue Ban Discussion

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Vogue
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by Vogue »

ogo wrote:I voted for 6 months, and was surprised that the majority vote was 12 months. It seems a little excessive to jump from 1 month to 12 months. Perhaps 1 -> 6 -> permaban would be fairer and a little more logical
Basically.

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sinewav
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by sinewav »

Tazmania wrote:I'm not here to argue if what Vogue did was wrong or right, I'm just asking that she has a fair trial.
It was 100% fair. All the rules have been discussed and decided upon openly by the community. The vote followed the rules perfectly. If a Team Leader chose not to vote or did not submit a vote they should have been included in, that is 100% their personal responsibility and has no bearing on the validity of the trial. If you are not engaged in the community and don't know the rules (like Vogue) that is not anyone's problem but your own. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Regarding whether someone else would have received the same ban, others have already touched on this. There is no one else to compare this too. But if there were someone who remorselessly aggravated the community for years then broke rules and immediately evaded their punishment while taunting the community, you can bet your last dollar they would have been treated the same way.
ogo wrote:I voted for 6 months, and was surprised that the majority vote was 12 months. It seems a little excessive to jump from 1 month to 12 months. Perhaps 1 -> 6 -> permaban would be fairer and a little more logical
This is exactly how the previous system worked. It was progressive. Everyone thought this was both confusing and inadequate. And why, in this case, would it be excessive to ramp up a ban on someone who has never once apologized or even shown a shred of remorse for their actions and continuously takes shots at the community? I for one was not surprised by the result at all. (Disclaimer: I was not eligible to vote so I had no contribution to the 12-month ban.)

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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by TaZ »

sinewav wrote:
Tazmania wrote:I'm not here to argue if what Vogue did was wrong or right, I'm just asking that she has a fair trial.
It was 100% fair. All the rules have been discussed and decided upon openly by the community. The vote followed the rules perfectly. If a Team Leader chose not to vote or did not submit a vote they should have been included in, that is 100% their personal responsibility and has no bearing on the validity of the trial. If you are not engaged in the community and don't know the rules (like Vogue) that is not anyone's problem but your own. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
Soul wrote:I have sent out a PM to all team leaders/server admins with the protocol for the trial

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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by Vogue »

How's it confusing to go from 1 month to 6 months? Anyway, we're comparing this to a real justice system and they can appeal there too. I wouldn't really call this an appeal, but at some point during the next few months I'd like a re-vote to see where the current and past team leaders stand on my ban 'cause like I said, some people changed their minds + a few people didn't even vote.

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sinewav
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by sinewav »

sinewav wrote:If a Team Leader chose not to vote or did not submit a vote they should have been included in, that is 100% their personal responsibility and has no bearing on the validity of the trial.
The point again is, be engaged, be part of the process. Ask questions if you don't know the answers.

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theo
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by theo »

dinobro wrote:And before someone bashes me for posting again - I still play this game
Still you only post on the forums to take vogue's side.

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And before you say anything, yes I noticed that at least 1/5 of your posts are not about her. Mind blown.


Tazmania wrote:
Soul wrote:I have sent out a PM to all team leaders/server admins with the protocol for the trial

You know what? I was both TL and server owner (even though I wasn't listed TL in the wiki as I should have been) and I didn't receive any PM so I didn't vote.

I said so in the appropriate topic and soul explained why.

Why didn't you do the same?

Vogue wrote: + a few people didn't even vote.


Image
(here, 1 = a few people)

*16
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by *16 »

Vogue wrote:How's it confusing to go from 1 month to 6 months? Anyway, we're comparing this to a real justice system and they can appeal there too. I wouldn't really call this an appeal, but at some point during the next few months I'd like a re-vote to see where the current and past team leaders stand on my ban 'cause like I said, some people changed their minds + a few people didn't even vote.
I'm gonna ask my government if I can vote again because I changed my mind... Oh and my friend didn't went to the voting, so they should really redo those votings...

Also: I thought I just read 'a few times' that this topic was only ment as a transparent discussion, not as a demand to redo the vote. But I might have read wrong...
Image

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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by TaZ »

theo wrote:
Tazmania wrote:
Soul wrote:I have sent out a PM to all team leaders/server admins with the protocol for the trial

You know what? I was both TL and server owner (even though I wasn't listed TL in the wiki as I should have been) and I didn't receive any PM so I didn't vote.

I said so in the appropriate topic and soul explained why.

Why didn't you do the same?
I don't check the armagetron forums often, but I do check them if I get a message. I'm glad you were able to fix the situation, though.
sinewav wrote:If a Team Leader chose not to vote or did not submit a vote they should have been included in, that is 100% their personal responsibility and has no bearing on the validity of the trial.
Actually, it's not my responsibility. The person who took on the task to send the trial info to ALL the team-leaders is held responsible. Sinewav, I know you like to use "life" examples to compare current events on tron, so I will give you one.

A group of coworkers are invited to a party. The party organizer makes a post on a discussion board that many of the coworkers visit daily. The post contains a message saying that the organizer will be sending out emails for the group of coworkers to vote for the location of the party. The party organizer later sends an email out to all the coworkers but for whatever reason, forgets one or two. Who is held responsible for the coworker(s) not receiving the email? The party organizer of course.

This is my last post on this thread.

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sinewav
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by sinewav »

*16 wrote:I thought I just read 'a few times' that this topic was only meant as a transparent discussion, not as a demand to redo the vote.
You are correct, this topic is to discuss the following:
Vogue wrote:What I'm wondering is, if so many people(granted most haven't been vocal) were against it then how did it happen?
Notice "so many people." This is essentially confirmation bias, like the cherry-picking fallacy. Because Vogue is hearing from groups that are more favorable toward her, she has the false impression that more people are in favor of a reduced ban than actually exist. The truth is in the numbers. Our community had plenty of time to place a reasonable vote and this was the outcome. Those who did not vote either didn't care or didn't care enough to be participate, which is not the same as advocating for her position. Those who voted for a lesser sentence did so in good conscious, but this does not change the fact that the majority felt otherwise and this is what counts. Those who have regrets about their vote have more regret than the person punished, so this feeling is misplaced.

Regarding appeals: We have no system for appeals. It is up to the community to create one if we find it necessary. As it stands, there is no way to appeal the current ban.

However, our community might be more forgiving if they saw a sincere apology and a long-lasting change in behavior. Good luck with that.
Tazmania wrote:Actually, it's not my responsibility.
It is, because we are all in charge of this community and catching each other's mistakes. If you had any interest at all in the vote you would have stood up and pointed out the mistake. You didn't because you don't care, or don't care enough.

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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by Vogue »

sinewav wrote:Regarding appeals: We have no system for appeals. It is up to the community to create one if we find it necessary. As it stands, there is no way to appeal the current ban.
Couldn't you have said that from the beginning, Ladle Master Sinewav? If there's no appeal process (which is ridiculous but let's ignore that because HURR I'M LIZ) then clearly there's no point to this topic. For future problems, there should really be a platform to appeal.

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Magi
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by Magi »

I mean, maybe if you caused less drama on tron there wouldn't be a next time. :lol:
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Image

bye

Vogue
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by Vogue »

Stop laughing son, this is serious business. Nah I just meant the option to appeal would be cool but I doubt that would be developed simply cause I suggested it.

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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by Oparachukwu »

mad people just voted on the 12 month ban so that they can lessen the competition and i think 12 months is wayy too much time. someone mentioned if it was wap he wouldve got nothing on him, prolly like one week ban :P and why blame liz, it's the team leader's fault for not knowing who is playing for them. yea liz pisses me off :D but at least she brings life to this game, whether it's good or bad. armagetron is a free game and everyone deserves to play and participate :D
Karma wrote:Opara : Joined dL in the middle of 2011 , Left in the beginning of 2012 , Clan less atm
More info : started out as a trainee. Then got way better. Somehow He is really good at fort lol
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theo
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by theo »

Oparachukwu wrote: armagetron is a free game and everyone deserves to play and participate :D
Mach, Darwin & Linux are free too. Does that mean i can use your smartphone whenever I want without any control?

bilbo baggins
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Re: Vogue Ban Discussion

Post by bilbo baggins »

there should be an appeal process, to have a re-vote or a probationary period, and i believe there is, its at the digression of the community, your "light sentence" was a 1 month ban (1 ladle). Its not that much of a hinderance to sit a ladle out. You didn't and now you pay the price. You didn't learn from your "probation" or w/e and now receive a harsher punishment. You can argue about the validity of the vote or the bias and harshness or w/e, or you can get on with enjoying the game on a public basis, be more courteous in games and more friendly, "change your image" as sine said and the community as a whole will become more lenient with you. Then your ban may be revoked/revisited

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