Ladle 83 Rule Change Discussion

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Titanoboa
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by Titanoboa »

At least dinobro is applying logic to this situation.



Also, y'all got played. First thing liz said was basically "just follow the procedures and give me my punishment," which is what we should do. But since she said that, you're all like "no, that's what she wants us to do, let's flip out instead."

(note: I recognize that there's a few who are actually contributing..)

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kyle
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by kyle »

owned wrote:the decisions made back at Ladle 36 don't determine what decisions we make now.
I disagree with that, because that is what the community decided on back then, yes stuff has changed bla bla bla, but we have not approved anything new yet.
owned wrote:The punishment system can be improved, and I think the rules I proposed will improve on the old ones.
With that being said, I think we need to have another voting thread for the team leaders prior to the next ladle. Things to be discussed and added to it should be, these newly proposed rules, the /op ability and anything else the community thinks may need to be tweaked.
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Venijn
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by Venijn »

What Titan said.

Punishing Liz under a new system concocted to make her punishment more severe is morally suspect.

By all means, change the system, but you can't apply it to retrospectively and call it fair.

That said, I'm not defending any action here, I'm with the community on this one, but any punishment made under new guidelines, must be for new infringements.
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theo
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by theo »

jsour vs epsy + plee

http://pastebin.com/Rq6xxevq

dinobro
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by dinobro »

Thanks for those highly relevant logs of some nobody (me) arguing with "epsy+plee". I mean, you just totally changed some people opinion about the issue at hand.
/s
Or is this some kind of, "I have no counterargument let's bash the person instead" type of thing?

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theo
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by theo »

Yes I believe this is relevant.


This means you don't belong to the community. You don't know it. You don't know anything. But as soon as liz is in trouble, you magically appear.


Anyone arguing with you is waiting his time. There is no point arguing with Blondi.

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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by Vogue »

Venijn wrote:Punishing Liz under a new system concocted to make her punishment more severe is morally suspect.
Owned & co are looking to change the rules only to give me a longer+harsher sentence, I figured that was glaringly obvious but I guess not. I'll be the first one to say be my guest, but from a community who's oh so offended by injustice, that's pretty immoral.

This is also ineffective and overly time-consuming. Instead of trying to change these guidelines which will never be enforced on a player who isn't named Vogue (lets be real here), you should make this an isolated case and judge accordingly. Ergo all the team leaders of recent and relevant clans/teams get together to discuss a punishment for me, that would probably take like 10 minutes.

Or you can keep going, make 6 more topics and get nowhere. That's probably funnier and more amusing for me.

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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by dinobro »

I'm sorry theo but:
a) You are not entitled to decide who is and who isn't part of the community. I play this game too, I do sign up for pick up from time to time so I'm as much of a player as you.
b) As for logs, I did conduct the discussion on irc in a respectful and calm manner, all I got was "stop licking Vogue's ass".
c) I don't know anything? As far as I remember Plee admitted and said sorry for calling Vogue a bitch... so what is your point?

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takburger
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by takburger »

Vogue wrote:
Venijn wrote:Punishing Liz under a new system concocted to make her punishment more severe is morally suspect.
Owned & co are looking to change the rules only to give me a longer+harsher sentence, I figured that was glaringly obvious but I guess not. I'll be the first one to say be my guest, but from a community who's oh so offended by injustice, that's pretty immoral.

This is also ineffective and overly time-consuming. Instead of trying to change these guidelines which will never be enforced on a player who isn't named Vogue (lets be real here), you should make this an isolated case and judge accordingly. Ergo all the team leaders of recent and relevant clans/teams get together to discuss a punishment for me, that would probably take like 10 minutes.

Or you can keep going, make 6 more topics and get nowhere. That's probably funnier and more amusing for me.
Indeed, that is why no punition is the best, because any would be ineffective. The only real option is for clans to man up and say "no" when you apply / propose to be part of them.

Unfortunately, so many people would burry their family in order to gain a small chance to win a ladle.

What to do then for the ones who want to take action? Ignore all this and carry on to other ventures. Too bad everybody (almost) just like to talk on many topics and do nothing.

So please everybody. Just stop feeding the trolls.
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Vogue
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by Vogue »

takburger wrote:The only real option is for clans to man up and say "no" when you apply / propose to be part of them.
U Mad Bro? Overdramatic as hell. No, I can tell you now I already have a new team and will be playing after my ladle ban. Not that I'll be banned from ladle at all, of course.

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takburger
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by takburger »

Vogue wrote:
takburger wrote:The only real option is for clans to man up and say "no" when you apply / propose to be part of them.
U Mad Bro? Overdramatic as hell. No, I can tell you now I already have a new team and will be playing after my ladle ban. Not that I'll be banned from ladle at all, of course.
Not mad at all. IDGAF, if I was GAF, I would be trying so bad to change the regulations to ban you. I just said I don't want you banned. I just try to explain to the community the only way to get rid of you. But since you have friends, it will never happen. And I'm fine with it.
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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by sinewav »

First, the idea that the warnings section of the rules in somehow invalid because we didn't vote specifically to include them is stupid on it's face. That section was reviewed and accepted along with all the other rules after L-36. We even used the system in L-57. No one questioned it. But now because everyone has a hard-on for liz we need to change it? Fine, do what you want.

Second, I did not write the rules. A team of us wrote revisions after problems in Ladle 36, and every subsequent rule was discussed openly and voted on. PROOF.

Third, I am not a tyrant. People come to me as the de facto rule guy because I am most familiar with them and it's easier to simply ask me a question rather than reading the wiki, just like it is easier to do a Google search rather than reading on-line documentation. I do not enforce the rules. The only power I have is over my own server. And rather than go around in circles about policy, which is only ineffective because the community is spineless, I am using the only power I have to do what I think is right. Don't want to use my servers because I banned a few cheaters? You are in luck because there are other servers! Hooooray! \o/
Last edited by sinewav on Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

THEred
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by THEred »

theo wrote:You don't know anything.
:o
Vogue wrote: Or you can keep going, make 6 more topics and get nowhere.
but srsly, this really shouldn't be so incredibly complicated. vote, punish, move on.

R is going for the back-to-back anyway
so does anything else even matter!? <-THAT WAS SARCASM DONT ATTACK ME
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owned
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by owned »

kyle wrote:
owned wrote:the decisions made back at Ladle 36 don't determine what decisions we make now.
I disagree with that, because that is what the community decided on back then, yes stuff has changed bla bla bla, but we have not approved anything new yet.
Maybe I should have been more clear, but that's what I was trying to say. The rules I proposed have not been approved by anyone. That's why I want a vote. I'm saying that the rules we vote on now don't have to be determined by the rules we voted on back in Ladle 36.
Vogue wrote: Owned & co are looking to change the rules only to give me a longer+harsher sentence, I figured that was glaringly obvious but I guess not.
Yeah I'm looking to change the rules so the community is able to punish people like you. It's a joke that after your repeated infringements you're only getting banned from one ladle.

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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 83 Voting Ban Discussion

Post by sinewav »

owned wrote:I'm confused. You're sending me to a link about voting on seeding.
Oops, must have pasted from the wrong browser tab. Here. Voted unanimously.
Purposeful rule breakers get shunned/IP baned for the following Ladle: Yes (12) | No (0)
At that time, there was a second punishment system on the wiki named "Flex's Alternative" which had no support and was quickly forgotten. We have now used the current system three times. This is the first time anyone has been sent to the penalty box. I imagine those IPs will be added to authorities.cfg for the next Ladle.

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