Brawl 41 | 8th June | Sign Up

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*16
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Brawl 41 | 8th June | Sign Up

Post by *16 »

Wiki

Are we going to chance anything about the settings from the last discussion or keep everything the same?

I was thinking we could do matches to 5 if we don't have a lot of time. That way the match isn't finished that quickly. Opinions?
Last edited by *16 on Wed May 28, 2014 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cadillac_
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Post by Cadillac_ »

Im not sure about any1 else, but the wiki is showing up blank for me.

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sinewav
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Post by sinewav »

Cadillac_ wrote:Im not sure about any1 else, but the wiki is showing up blank for me.
It is because *16 flubbed the link. Instead of...

CTF_BRAWL/Challenge_Board

...it should be:

CTF_BRAWL#Challenge_Board

Try this link instead.

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Tru
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Post by Tru »

@*16, are you talking about LIMIT_TIME when you say 'matches to 5' ? If so, it's too short.

The primary goal by 8th June is to find people who crashed with 0.4 in previous brawl and find a server version which works for them. Then host proper servers for this brawl.
From my side I can host 2 servers in New York and in Germany. I'll do it today, so people with 0.4 can test the build I will use.
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*16
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Post by *16 »

sinewav wrote:
Cadillac_ wrote:Im not sure about any1 else, but the wiki is showing up blank for me.
It is because *16 flubbed the link. Instead of...

CTF_BRAWL/Challenge_Board

...it should be:

CTF_BRAWL#Challenge_Board

Try this link instead.
Thanks Sine, I flubbed it indeed :p
I edited the link too.

Tru wrote:@*16, are you talking about LIMIT_TIME when you say 'matches to 5' ? If so, it's too short.

The primary goal by 8th June is to find people who crashed with 0.4 in previous brawl and find a server version which works for them. Then host proper servers for this brawl.
From my side I can host 2 servers in New York and in Germany. I'll do it today, so people with 0.4 can test the build I will use.
@Tru, I meant best of 5 instead of best of 3. So nothing would change in the settings, just playing more matches.

I know Magi, Venom & Lowkey crashed a lot previous brawl. Theo is also gonna host a 0.4 server to test out if that goes better.

The other solution I have is just not playing on a 0.4 client if you know you crash... Or compile a newer version for windows than the one on source forge. I got the latest mac version of dlh and that's like z2185 instead of the latest windows version z2069. Since I updated I didn't crash anymore. I don't know how to compile it so I can't help with that, but i'm sure some people here do.
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Tru
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Post by Tru »

ok, I'll talk to theo and people you mentioned more.

As about 'best of 5 matches' that's really something interesting to discuss for Brawl 42, but not for this one. It's a bit of late.
I personally like it and it gives more chances for both teams. But it can't go that simple without other LIMIT changes, in other words, making it 'best of 5' prolongs game almost 2x for every Team1_vs_Team2 which would make Brawl 2 hours longer then usually.
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bilbo baggins
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Post by bilbo baggins »

i crashed on 0.2.8 tho, so i dont think its version specific

*16
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Post by *16 »

Tru wrote:ok, I'll talk to theo and people you mentioned more.

As about 'best of 5 matches' that's really something interesting to discuss for Brawl 42, but not for this one. It's a bit of late.
I personally like it and it gives more chances for both teams. But it can't go that simple without other LIMIT changes, in other words, making it 'best of 5' prolongs game almost 2x for every Team1_vs_Team2 which would make Brawl 2 hours longer then usually.
Actually, it doesn't makes it that much longer. Games which are tied can take longer but the typical 2-0 will get 3-0. I don't know, maybe something for the finals. Let's see next brawl.

There was also a suggestion to make score_limit 150 instead of 100. That would maybe be a better solution, another suggestion was making the flag opts instead of 10. So it would be harder to win very fast by holing and flag running.
bilbo baggins wrote:i crashed on 0.2.8 tho, so i dont think its version specific
I'm just gonna ignore you I think :p

Are there any other .2.8 version who crashed? Or some who didn't crash?
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Tru
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Post by Tru »

*16 wrote: There was also a suggestion to make score_limit 150 instead of 100. That would maybe be a better solution, another suggestion was making the flag opts instead of 10. So it would be harder to win very fast by holing and flag running.
Keep in mind that it's difficult to steal flag in ctf even with holing. It's even a more pain if there is a static double defense for 5 minutes of a round and opponent does not want by one or another reason to hole outer defense.
So I would say to keep high score for flag: 10.
Changes I would bring to discussion:
1) SCORE_LIMIT change from 100 to 150
2) Final be 'best of 5'

Are you happy with this values?

=======================
Another interesting thing to discuss is BASECAMP enemy base, when only 1 of the opponents left alive.
Many people complain about instant round end, which makes many people angry due to failed strategy moment.
It's true that value differs from round to round. On my servers it differs between 1 to 2 seconds and I have a script set to show this value in game console, so you can test and see yourself.
To solve it there could be 2 ways: one way is to find how to set a static timeout between last opponent dies and round actually ends (so it will be honest for everyone); another way is to increase SCORE for Round win, which would possibly eliminate this basecamping strategy.
We could make a test server where ROUND WIN SCORE equal to FLAG SCORE and this will change CTF team gamestyle completely as it happened several years ago after BRAWL 2 (8 won rounds == 80 points, with limit score 150)

EDIT:
Another improvement I want to bring to CTF (which I've already tried in past on some of my servers)
Many of you know that there are CTF floors in armagetron which are mostly used by some old CTFers.
This dishonest strategy wise for some teams or some players.
I suggest to make a new map with neutral zones inside flag with minimal radius almost equal to 0. It will always point where flag have to be.
And it will be a kill feature for new players too.

EDIT
I've just hosted a new server to test everything I mentioned above:
150 LIMIT SCORE
10 points for round win
flag position indicators (modified map)

Server name is CTF TESTS (ihptru - NY)
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Post by *16 »

Tru wrote:
Keep in mind that it's difficult to steal flag in ctf even with holing. It's even a more pain if there is a static double defense for 5 minutes of a round and opponent does not want by one or another reason to hole outer defense.
So I would say to keep high score for flag: 10.
Changes I would bring to discussion:
1) SCORE_LIMIT change from 100 to 150
2) Final be 'best of 5'

Are you happy with this values?
I surely am, but it's not to me to decide this alone. Tru what you're saying about getting the flag is true if you have two experienced teams who know how to set up a proper double def. At this moment there are mostly one or two teams in Brawl who actually can play ctf on a different level then the others. But I understand what you mean tho.

Tru wrote: Another interesting thing to discuss is BASECAMP enemy base, when only 1 of the opponents left alive.
Many people complain about instant round end, which makes many people angry due to failed strategy moment.
It's true that value differs from round to round. On my servers it differs between 1 to 2 seconds and I have a script set to show this value in game console, so you can test and see yourself.
To solve it there could be 2 ways: one way is to find how to set a static timeout between last opponent dies and round actually ends (so it will be honest for everyone); another way is to increase SCORE for Round win, which would possibly eliminate this basecamping strategy.
We could make a test server where ROUND WIN SCORE equal to FLAG SCORE and this will change CTF team gamestyle completely as it happened several years ago after BRAWL 2 (8 won rounds == 80 points, with limit score 150)
Again, I like this idea, but again I can't decide this alone. Maybe we should have some sort of vote for upcoming brawls to tweak the settings a little.
Tru wrote: EDIT:
Another improvement I want to bring to CTF (which I've already tried in past on some of my servers)
Many of you know that there are CTF floors in armagetron which are mostly used by some old CTFers.
This dishonest strategy wise for some teams or some players.
I suggest to make a new map with neutral zones inside flag with minimal radius almost equal to 0. It will always point where flag have to be.
And it will be a kill feature for new players too.

EDIT
I've just hosted a new server to test everything I mentioned above:
150 LIMIT SCORE
10 points for round win
flag position indicators (modified map)

Server name is CTF TESTS (ihptru - NY)
Awesome, I'm gonna test the server immediately and try to find some guys this evening to test out the black outs on your and theo's server.
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Post by sinewav »

A custom floor texture is not needed to identify the flag position. You can simply use GRID_SIZE 25 (with FLOOR_DETAIL 1 preferably) and the grid will align with the flag and base.

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Tru
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Post by Tru »

sinewav wrote:A custom floor texture is not needed to identify the flag position. You can simply use GRID_SIZE 25 (with FLOOR_DETAIL 1 preferably) and the grid will align with the flag and base.
A good point about it that you know it and I do not :), and prolly not only me.
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Post by *16 »

We tested your server with 5 players Tru and it didn't crash for Magi, who's is the king of blackouts.

So maybe a solution is that everyone updates his servers to that latest version you used.

The Delay thing is nice

I also tested grid_size 25 but imo that's really distracting and annoying. I prefer the little zone but I don't think it's needed in Brawl.
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Post by Magi »

*16 wrote:We tested your server with 5 players Tru and it didn't crash for Magi, who's is the king of blackouts.
\o/
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Post by Cadillac_ »

Shouldn't brackets be up today?
I would do them but /me is a noob

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