Ladle (& Bowl) time / Time zone table

[orion]

just to avoid future confusions, you say "Ladle time (18:45 GMT)" but last Ladle started 17:45 GMT

[sinewav]

Oh right, 17:45 GMT I guess. We should really stop using GMT since Ladle actually follows BST. Any objections to rewording all the related documentation?

[takburger]

I dunno, it seem pretty clear, people are never late, why would we change ?

http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php? ... interTimes
http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php? ... ummerTimes

Time change in summer as it does in our countries, so we keep showing at our personal time we use to show.

[ppotter]

BST is only during summer.

[sinewav]

Right, what I meant to say is that Ladle always follows BST summer time. I would like to see a better way to display the times we use. I also think we should throw away the starts of all the finals other than the opening round because it is completely pointless. Exactly zero times has it made a difference when the later rounds are supposed to start. They start when the teams show up and decide to play. The end. It has never once been handled differently. I propose we create a single, combined table that has the start times for the whole year, for all regions. Also, we should remove the times from the brackets and only use the table to avoid further confusion.

[Overrated]

Right, what I meant to say is that Ladle always follows BST summer time. I would like to see a better way to display the times we use. I also think we should throw away the starts of all the finals other than the opening round because it is completely pointless. Exactly zero times has it made a difference when the later rounds are supposed to start. They start when the teams show up and decide to play. The end. It has never once been handled differently. I propose we create a single, combined table that has the start times for the whole year, for all regions. Also, we should remove the times from the brackets and only use the table to avoid further confusion.

I agree except not entirely.

Should at least include a second round; in the instance the first round is over and a team has a bye. If teams want to play early; then go ahead, but they probably will have to wait even longer. Also gives a chance for people to show up late knowing they have a bye that gives them at least a 45 minute opportunity. I know against RD in last ladle; I felt a little rushed by them when it wasn't even the wiki's starting time yet* (was about 10 minutes beforehand and we were still getting our team organized). It had no impact on the matches, just saying felt a little rushed in that regard.

So, agree that we should get rid of the times for semis and final; but keep opening and second round times for that rarity. Shouldn't a bye get some perks? Having that start later if opening round is short should be a perk.

*didn't feel rushed because it was before starting time, just in general

[sinewav]

So, agree that we should get rid of the times for semis and final; but keep opening and second round times for that rarity.

You just need to count 45 more minutes in your head.

Anyway, I will see if I can come up with something better. Not a high priority.

[owned]

I agree with over, I think second round times are good for the reason he stated. Especially if we have newer teams, they might not know when they're expected for the second round.

[vov]

The current form of the timetable does already have a link under it where you can check your time in relation to GMT; both via a GMT clock and tables of where you live and if it's summer time etc. It also has a "London/UK Time" clock on the front page so changing the reference from GMT to that would be fine too (although probably confusing at first since it is a change, and you'd also have to list when said UK time changes). Making the link bigger or painting it red or something like that would also work though.

About listing only opening round stuff, that makes sense. Giving the "45 minutes after that" as general annotation for 2nd round under the time table would be fine I think.

[Monkey]

I think that the ladle times should always be given in GMT (or UTC) because that is the standard time by which all other time zones are compared to. The time conversion table can then easily be used to convert the time to one's time zone. Of course, the time conversion table will need to be kept updated with the correct summer or winter times.

[sinewav]

Yes, I am thinking about a single table that also includes the dates for summer time in different regions. This way there is no switching or editing tables and all the times are clearly laid out in one place for everyone to see.

[Hoax]

Ladle doesn't follow BST per se, Europe implements summer time simultaneously and the ladle is GMT as is the UK
I don't think the times are confusing or pointless either, they're a reference and a guarantee that a match won't start before that time unless both teams agree. If your match is delayed the waiting team allows the other 5mins and then it starts straight away. Though I agree that at least the final start time could be done away with probably.
The only reason I see for removing the times from the brackets is because it would look nicer on the results page. I get separating the times and brackets but it's far easier to visualise when it's above, never have I looked at the times table.

[sinewav]

After reading everyone's suggestions I came up with something that is less confusing. Hopefully. The table is sitting in the sandbox right now. Here are some of the changes and reasoning behind them:

1. Removed GMT. Ladle follows summer time in Europe. Listing GMT serves no purpose. We don't use it and it only stands to confuse people.
2. Used more descriptive names for time zones. It doesn't matter what we call the time zones in Europe since Ladle time never changes. Why are you even looking at the chart? People in the US are the only ones who will ever be confused by the time change. Simply giving Eastern and Pacific time is good enough.
3. Wrote US times in common format. This is confusing enough without having to convert 24 hour time in your head too. I don't have time for this, just tell me when to be there in my time.
4. Added the Summer Time / Winter Time month ranges. This is really the most important part. In Europe, time changes happen on the first Sunday of April and November. Summer Time comes two weeks earlier in the United States, but it doesn't matter because Ladle is always on the first Sunday.
5. Listed the opening round as a time range. This tells you when it starts and when it is over if you don't need to show up.

I understand it is easier to look at the bracket instead of the time table. I don't know why Europeans would look at the time anyway, but whatever. Perhaps if the new, slim time table was listed above the bracket we could remove the times from the actual bracket?

Let me know what you think. Feel free to make changes to the sandbox.

[takburger]

After reading everyone's suggestions I came up with something that is less confusing. Hopefully. The table is sitting in the sandbox right now. Here are some of the changes and reasoning behind them:

1. Removed GMT. Ladle follows summer time in Europe. Listing GMT serves no purpose. We don't use it and it only stands to confuse people.
2. Used more descriptive names for time zones. It doesn't matter what we call the time zones in Europe since Ladle time never changes. Why are you even looking at the chart? People in the US are the only ones who will ever be confused by the time change. Simply giving Eastern and Pacific time is good enough.
3. Wrote US times in common format. This is confusing enough without having to convert 24 hour time in your head too. I don't have time for this, just tell me when to be there in my time.
4. Added the Summer Time / Winter Time month ranges. This is really the most important part. In Europe, time changes happen on the first Sunday of April and November. Summer Time comes two weeks earlier in the United States, but it doesn't matter because Ladle is always on the first Sunday.
5. Listed the opening round as a time range. This tells you when it starts and when it is over if you don't need to show up.

I understand it is easier to look at the bracket instead of the time table. I don't know why Europeans would look at the time anyway, but whatever. Perhaps if the new, slim time table was listed above the bracket we could remove the times from the actual bracket?

Let me know what you think. Feel free to make changes to the sandbox.

I think you are wrong on your US times, Sine.

Lets take Eastern time (washington dc IE)
You say, nov to march : 1:45p-2:30p and april-oct: 2:45p-3:30p.

If I make the calculation again with old format information:

In Washington DC, the time is UTC/GMT -5 in winter and UTC/GMT -4 in summer.
Ladle times are : winter UTC/GMT 18:45 and summer UTC/GMT 17:45.
So for Washington DC, winter time is 18:45 - 5 = 13:45 = 1:45p. (that one is correct)
and for summer time it is 17:45 - 4 = 13:45 = 1:45p. (that one you got it wrong).

To conclude, as Europe AND US change time in summer, the effective time you play Ladle do not change. if it is 1:45p it will be 1:45p all year long.

[Titanoboa]

If you're going to call Central European Time "Germany", you can go ahead and change US Pacific & Eastern to Las Vegas and New York.
Or, change "Germany" to Central Europe.