The Tronic Shovel

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Ritsuka
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The Tronic Shovel

Post by Ritsuka »

http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php/Shovel

This will be a monthly event taking place on the third Sunday of every month. Consider it the TST version of the Ladle.

You'll notice there are a few differences from the traditional TST, most importantly that instead of matches to 900 points, there will be a 18 round limit in which the top team advances (top 2 in semi-finals).

This event is in the early stages of development, so feel free to offer any suggestions, ideas, or concerns regarding its implementation. Constructive criticism is welcome, but unnecessary feedback will be ignored.

The first Tronic Shovel is scheduled to take place on Sunday, February 16th, 2014. A test server is currently available for anyone who would like to give it a try.

Concord
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Concord »

Ritsuka has made a good change to the scoring set up.

Instead of matches to 900, each match is simply 18 rounds.

This is good because under the old system, 2nd place scores weren't counted. You could lose a match 870-900 and get no credit. Let's say in the semis or finals, you could come in 2nd every match and have the most total points of any team, but still lose. This is a better way of doing it.

It also makes the semis and finals shorter. If the finals are evenly matched, the have the potential to go on for a very long time.

It also eliminates the awkward 3-team portion of the semifinals.

It also could make the opening round a little longer, which is good for the teams that do not advance to semis.

so wd on that.

Cody
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Cody »

Sweet deal. Can't wait for the first shovel!

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Ritsuka
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Ritsuka »

Concord wrote:Ritsuka has made a good change to the scoring set up.

Instead of matches to 900, each match is simply 18 rounds.

This is good because under the old system, 2nd place scores weren't counted. You could lose a match 870-900 and get no credit. Let's say in the semis or finals, you could come in 2nd every match and have the most total points of any team, but still lose. This is a better way of doing it.

It also makes the semis and finals shorter. If the finals are evenly matched, the have the potential to go on for a very long time.

It also eliminates the awkward 3-team portion of the semifinals.

It also could make the opening round a little longer, which is good for the teams that do not advance to semis.

so wd on that.
Thanks for pointing this out, in my opinion this new scoring system will make for much smoother event.
Cody wrote:Sweet deal. Can't wait for the first shovel!
Me neither. I'd schedule it sooner but I'd hate to barrage the community with sumo tournaments.

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wap
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by wap »

Have to say I'd really rather have this held trimonthly or at least bimonthly.

This would essentially turn TST's into the sumo version of ladles, which, in my opinion, is not a good thing. Ladles have become more and more of a monthly 'routine' that everyone plays, but no one seems overly excited about. Don't get me wrong, I think most teams are still pretty motivated to win a ladle, but there's always this mentality of "if we lose, oh well, next month brings a new chance".

Converting TST's to a similar format would not only lower the prestige and excitement of playing (and winning) in the tournament, it will probably also lower the number of people participating, because you can always play again next month. Being so special (until now, at least), a TST always brings out many players, usually also those who haven't been active for some time. This is what makes it a big event, and this is one of its charms. Removing this won't enhance my experience, as it probably won't for many others.

I do appreciate what you are doing for the community, though, I just hope you won't go overboard with it.

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Ritsuka
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Ritsuka »

wap wrote:This would essentially turn TST's into the sumo version of ladles, which, in my opinion, is not a good thing.
I understand your point, but my entire motive was to turn TST into "the sumo version of ladles". The consistency in sumo competition has declined to the point of complete randomness, and while your bi/trimonthly idea doesn't necessarily support inconsistency, it does make the event far less likely to remain self-sustainable.
wap wrote:Ladles have become more and more of a monthly 'routine' that everyone plays, but no one seems overly excited about. Don't get me wrong, I think most teams are still pretty motivated to win a ladle, but there's always this mentality of "if we lose, oh well, next month brings a new chance".
That's debatable, maybe it seems that way to a member of a clan that's played as many ladles as CT, but to most clans the ladle is pretty much the only thing that matters, aside from spontaneous sumo tournaments.
wap wrote:Converting TST's to a similar format would not only lower the prestige and excitement of playing (and winning) in the tournament, it will probably also lower the number of people participating, because you can always play again next month.
I don't get that logic, the first Tronic Ladle had 48 players signed up while Ladle 76 had 136. I'd say the regularity has definitely created a noticeable growth in the ladle's participation, and I don't see why this should be any different.
wap wrote:Being so special (until now, at least), a TST always brings out many players, usually also those who haven't been active for some time. This is what makes it a big event, and this is one of its charms. Removing this won't enhance my experience, as it probably won't for many others.
This isn't TST, it's something almost completely different. If someone wants to continue hosting the TST periodically, that's up to them.

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sinewav
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by sinewav »

Would be nice if the shovel rotated between TST, WST, SBX... No?

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Gazelle
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Gazelle »

sinewav wrote:Would be nice if the shovel rotated between TST, WST, SBX... No?
Thats a great idea, for once i agree with sine :p

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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Cody »

sinewav wrote:Would be nice if the shovel rotated between TST, WST, SBX... No?

I'd rather keep SBT on its current schedule, only happening once or twice maybe even three times a year.

If people are worried that TST will burn out how about we create a new sumo map/mode and make it the tronic shovel? and then have the specialty tournaments on the side?

What if we brought back the classic sumo where its 1v1v1v1 | 1v1v1v1 | 1v1v1v1 | 1v1v1v1 in 4 zones in one map?

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Ritsuka
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Ritsuka »

sinewav wrote:Would be nice if the shovel rotated between TST, WST, SBX... No?
I'm open to the possibility of rotating between Team Sumo and War Sumo, but Sumobar is completely irrelevant to team based competition.


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Soul
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Soul »

I think if you're going to do a monthly tournament it should be the same tournament like you said. I don't think that having it every month will diminish its prestige or anything like that.
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wap
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by wap »

Ritsuka wrote:I understand your point, but my entire motive was to turn TST into "the sumo version of ladles". The consistency in sumo competition has declined to the point of complete randomness, and while your bi/trimonthly idea doesn't necessarily support inconsistency, it does make the event far less likely to remain self-sustainable.
And this "self-sustainable sumo version of ladle" is exactly what I'm arguing against. To combat this randomness, less drastic measures can also be taken.
Ritsuka wrote:That's debatable, maybe it seems that way to a member of a clan that's played as many ladles as CT, but to most clans the ladle is pretty much the only thing that matters, aside from spontaneous sumo tournaments.
Could be true, but I still stand by my point that no one is overly excited about it and no one thinks losing is that big of a deal. Don't want the same to happen to TST's.
Ritsuka wrote:I don't get that logic, the first Tronic Ladle had 48 players signed up while Ladle 76 had 136. I'd say the regularity has definitely created a noticeable growth in the ladle's participation, and I don't see why this should be any different.
Fact of the matter is that the growth of our sumo/fortress community has slowed down a lot, if not stagnated. The point I'm making is that we don't need another monthly tournament with a set type of settings, especially when it'll hurt other sumo tournaments along the way.
Ritsuka wrote:This isn't TST, it's something almost completely different. If someone wants to continue hosting the TST periodically, that's up to them.
It's the TST with a few minor changes and a different name. If someone else is going to host the original TST periodically, both of these tournaments will mutually hurt each other.
sinewav wrote:Would be nice if the shovel rotated between TST, WST, SBX... No?
I already like this way better. Keeps it fresh every month and the tournaments stay 'special'.
Ritsuka wrote:I'm open to the possibility of rotating between Team Sumo and War Sumo, but Sumobar is completely irrelevant to team based competition.
But why though? They're all sumo tournaments. "Completely irrelevant" is completely wrong.
Ritsuka wrote:I'm delighted you've all found your voices, but you had every opportunity to voice your distaste for regular Team Sumo tournaments and chose to remain silent.

Except sinewav. He spoke up.
You're asking for concerns, ideas and suggestions. Well, here they are.

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Renegade
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Renegade »

What about a 4 team WST
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Ritsuka
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Re: The Tronic Shovel

Post by Ritsuka »

wap wrote:
Ritsuka wrote:...
And this "self-sustainable sumo version of ladle" is exactly what I'm arguing against. To combat this randomness, less drastic measures can also be taken.
I don't believe this is drastic, why shouldn't sumo be held in the same regard as fortress?
wap wrote:
Ritsuka wrote:...
Could be true, but I still stand by my point that no one is overly excited about it and no one thinks losing is that big of a deal. Don't want the same to happen to TST's.
I don't think anyone should be "overly excited" about a monthly competition on a relatively small game community. One of the main goals of the Shovel is add an extra element to Armagetron that will hopefully encourage new players to give competitive tronning a try. Now a larger community, that's something to get overly excited about! :D
wap wrote:
Ritsuka wrote:...
The point I'm making is that we don't need another monthly tournament with a set type of settings, especially when it'll hurt other sumo tournaments along the way.
I don't believe it will. I have no problem hosting an additional sumo competition either monthly or bi-monthly, switching between War Sumo, Sumobar, 1v1 Sumo, and even single-binding variants of each. That will allow for plenty of diversity while simultaneously maintaining the regularity of a Tronic team sumo.
wap wrote:
Ritsuka wrote:...
But why though? They're all sumo tournaments. "Completely irrelevant" is completely wrong.
False. Maybe you aren't familiar with the concept of "Tronic" but the general consensus is that it involves a team. Tronic is what I'm going for here. The community was given ample time to decide between the two major team sumo game types and team sumo is what they chose.
wap wrote:
Ritsuka wrote:...
You're asking for concerns, ideas and suggestions. Well, here they are.
You're right, and I appreciate it. You've given me plenty to think about.
Soul wrote:I think if you're going to do a monthly tournament it should be the same tournament like you said. I don't think that having it every month will diminish its prestige or anything like that.
Thanks, I appreciate the support Soul!

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say consistency. I'm pretty sure anyone who can take part (and is a generally active member of the sumo/fortress community) won't have any reason not to take part in this event.

And that's another thing I want to bring up:

As a Tronic event, the Shovel is a great way to encourage players who primarily play fortress to become active in sumo. I love seeing players like Titanoboa, PokeMaster, Concord, and Soul in sumo, but as members of highly competitive fortress clans it seems like they are less inclined to enter a sumo server if the option for fortress is present.

Not that I don't love fortress!

But this is a great way to bring those few who generally stick to one or the other over to the other side. And team sumo just happened to win the vote, so best of luck to you all, I hope to see you signed up in February!

xoxo
(Merry Christmas!)

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