Ladle 76

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theo
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by theo »

Z-Man wrote:What puzzles me is how the chat spam protection does not kick in.
Messages varies slightly every time. So that doesn't not trigger the "similar messages" spam protection.

As for the msg flow, I have no idea.

sinewav wrote:Can we get a discussion between server owners and come up with some agreement and guidelines?
That'll be good.
sinewav wrote:I'm afraid we will run out of server quickly if we say "only latest dedicated stable is acceptable."
If a newer version is needed for the greater good of the game, I'll happily upgrade.

I was just using the last tagged "stable version" (almost cause 0.2.8.3 didn't support global IDs).
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Titanoboa
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Titanoboa »

voodoo wrote:...to have KICK like command splitted in two different commands: by name and by id.
Yes!

"Just" add kick_id, ban_id, silence_id, voice/unsilence_id and whatever I'm forgetting? And stop making the regular ones apply to ID's then, naturally. I think it looks like a solid idea from my nooby point of view.
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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by sinewav »

Titanoboa wrote:"Just" add kick_id, ban_id, silence_id, voice/unsilence_id and whatever...
Nah, too much work to avoid the minor inconvenience of one troll (hi swag). If he can't confuse people with numbers he will just use variations of existing player names to accomplish the same thing. What I would rather have is some sort of sorting to /players. When you have to look through 32 players to find a troublemaker it is easy to make mistakes. Having it sort by login time would be better (most recent on bottom), but I doubt this is possible.
Overrated
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Overrated »

Gazelle wrote: As for the lag...Yes overrated, it lagged, but what you have to understand although while lagging for you and your team, it was lagging for your opponents team as well. We dont have the best servers in the world, not like we put alot of funds into them either, so kinda gotta suck it up and learn how to play with it like some of the other teams do or try to do.
Excuse me while I pick this apart. Where did I mention Rd in my original statement? I'm aware other teams have lag too and I was only stating the lag regarding me and my own team while judging and rating the server. Not once did I mention another team.

For myself, I can directly place at least 4 or 5 of my deaths due to sliding into something for no reason (final round as a prime example (where poke had already crashed (think it wasn't lag related, however)), perhaps?) or just overall really unstable, jittery play.

To say to "suck it up," and to learn to play with it isn't exactly a fair assessment. As I had just said, I died multiple times due to something uncontrollable. You want me to try and account for lag while I'm in a box? While I only have few options on what to do? Completely change my style of play? Not going to happen, can only be so conservative. Overall, lag had an impact. Would we have won on a more stable server for us? Probably not, but they would have at least been better matches.
Gazelle wrote:I know as for RD, we play in CT LIV every ladle. I think we've managed to do alright :p
For the past 5 or 6 ladles*, R has been scheduled to play in CT LIV in either the starting or second round of ladles. If anyone is more aware of how the server is starting to fare, it would be us. It has progressively gotten worse for me (I believe it was performing very well about 3 or 4 ladles ago?) and after Sunday's showing, it was the last I could stand of it. I don't know why, but it HAS been getting worse.

*One of these ladles I played with CT and played through CT LIV (which I believe the server just had a few random stutters).
sinewav wrote:Ignore Overrated. Speaking of ratings, CT LIV is and has been the highest rated Ladle server, ever. If you can't play there, it's not the server -- it's you.
To ask to ignore me is to ignore any input I have, which defeats the purpose of discussion and the whole point of the rating system. I said (and admit) something in frustration, but I did not say, nor believe, that's the reason we lost. I said it was the worst I've ever played, and that I believe our team has played in and had to deal with. If I was up and down saying that we would have won, then yes, ignore my biased input. But no, and I repeat myself again, that a better server may have had better matches (R lost 100-24 or something first match, that was mostly us sucking, not lag related, but maybe it would have been 100-40 instead (big woop), and maybe we win the second match).

Just because the server was once good doesn't mean it is anymore. I once praised the server but now I don't, take it in hand, but don't "ignore" my input.

tl;dr. I stated my opinion on the server, I stated how bad it was for me, I rated it, and that is all.

PS: I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure the community would too, if more than just a few people rated the servers.
BRAWL dead. RIP.

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Gazelle
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Gazelle »

Woops nvm. Wrong topic!! :D
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Z-Man
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Z-Man »

dlh wrote:Z-Man's Server: 0.2.9_alpha_r1430 (I guess Z-Man has an extra unpublished revision—latest in bzr in 1429)
Correct. The extra revision are local changes I carry along, mostly the evil tournament patch.

Do we have server logs from a spam incident? I'd like to look at the timing. Could be that he simply spams below the filter's threshold, which still can be annoying. The ladle filter is more lenient than default. If that is the case, I guess we need to treat quick join-leave-join sequences as spam.
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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by sinewav »

Overrated wrote:tl;dr. I stated my opinion on the server, I stated how bad it was for me, I rated it, and that is all.
Please accept my apologies, I was mostly trying to deflect Gazelle's completely unneeded reply to you. And we all know you have a pretty awful connection most of the time, which is too bad. I can totally relate. I didn't mean to show you disrespect or make you feel like your feedback wasn't appreciated. In fact, it's greatly appreciated!

I almost feel like changing the name of the "Server Quality Tracker" to "Server Connection Tracker" because that is what it really is. Choppy play, skipping/freezing, disappearing lines, and crashing are signs of a bad server and these are fairly rare (thankfully). Lag and slides are related to connection problems. But as I said earlier, feedback is still useful because we can see how geography affects the game. If many people have consistently poor connections to an otherwise perfectly running server it needs to go.
Overrated wrote:PS: I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure the community would too, if more than just a few people rated the servers.
Yes! Especially new servers!

And I still stick by saying "if you can't play in CT LIV it's not the server." It's, like, the best Ladle server we have. Saying you have to "suck it up" in such a good server is ridiculous! Now if you were playing in Z-Man's, that's another story... :P
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Nanu Nanu
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Nanu Nanu »

First round of semis in CT LIV I was disconnected from the server mid game. Second match there I think Poke got disconnected as well. I also think Fipp was disconnected at some point in the server, but I think that was more related to his Internet.
Prema wrote:The second match starts, a new beginning,
Nanu and Prema, Sui and Ninja,
versus those same old hoes grinning.
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dlh
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by dlh »

I think we could have more insight into the server ratings if the individual ratings were recorded (Blah's server: -1 → 2 (Player 1, Player 2), +1 → 3 (…), etc…) rather than just the sum. If people are doing ratings we may as well track all the data. I'm not saying the current data is useless, but it could be beneficial to compare ratings from other algorithms.
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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by sinewav »

dlh wrote:I think we could have more insight into the server ratings ...
I agree. When we originally came up with this idea the ratings were supposed to decay over time but I protested since it wasn't worth the extra work. But now that I'm collecting so many stats every month I could just make a spreadsheet to do it.

So let's get into it a little. How should we improve the ranking? The server are already split NA/EU. I can split the player feedback into NA/EU -- if the players on the forum put their location in profile.

Code: Select all

Location/Server: Rank (sum +|- EU)+(sum +|- NA)+(sum +|- Unknown Location)

EU/AoT UK: +1 (+2|0)+(+1|-2)
Again, this is just a sum, but shows the distribution. The example above shows 2 EU players and 1 NA player ranked Z-Man's server positively and 2 NA players had a bad time. How can we make this more meaningful? As long as I'm going to make a spreadsheet we might as well make the rating decay too. I still think 6 months of data is all we need for any server.
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vov
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by vov »

To the lag stuff: My connection is, to a point, random. Either I have a very good connection to a server or a bad one. The server ratings are as far as I see a collection of "this was good/neutral/bad for me today" and we assume the overall probability to get a good connection to a rated server will stay about the same next time. There are many other factors to that but it can be a good estimate. If your connection to one particular server is nearly always bad but you're a minority in that, the server still gets used. If you then also happen to play on it every time, that's bad luck :/
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Z-Man
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Z-Man »

I committed a change that makes drive by spam count more by essentially not counting the time between your last chat in the previous session and the time you reender/log in towards cooldown.

Regarding separate kick commands: not happening on 0.2.8. We made the decision to keep the player lookup system the way it was waaaay back as any change there would break existing scripts. On 0.4, maybe. But different, I'd say. Not different commands, rather prefixes/patterns for matching different things. Like "/kick #2" to kick client ID 2, "/kick $12" to kick the screen name 12. Obviously, whatever prefixes we use may need to be made illegal in screen names and GIDs. This breaks stuff and needs more thinking than I want to put towards it right now.
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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by sinewav »

Z-Man wrote:Not different commands, rather prefixes/patterns for matching different things...This breaks stuff and needs more thinking than I want to put towards it right now.
Require some characters to be \escaped? Not that I think any of this is necessary. Thanks for the new code, Z. Hopefully we can get most of the servers updated.
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Z-Man
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Re: Ladle 76

Post by Z-Man »

sinewav wrote:Require some characters to be \escaped?
Probably. Problem there being partial matches. Design goal #1 (because that is the one thing the current client-ID-first system does not have):
If you see

Code: Select all

<Player Name>: <Some Spam>
and you enter

Code: Select all

/kick <Some substring of player name>
One of two things should happen: either you get an informative error and nothing happens, or the spamming player should be kicked.
If you expect the admin to enter special characters escaped here, that's not good. If you display them as escaped in the first place, trolls will annoy us with overlong names by filling them with escaped characters. Also, escape code tends to be buggy and unmaintained, at least when I write it :)

What any new system will have: The only convenient way to kick players with wonky characters in their names will be to view the player list and kick them by ID. Maybe it's not the worst idea to just supply KICK_ID and remove lookup by client ID from all other commands. I mean, if you are picking a name that makes it difficult to silence or suspend you, you probably deserve a straight kick anyway.
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