Tron Ranking System opening now!

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orion
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Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by orion »

As you heard from TWGJ a new project is starting...

-All you need to know is here.

-You should register here. You can register now, but your account will be actived June 23.

-You could sign up for the next tournament (TST) here!. Its on June 30, you have to be registered first. (unlimited spots)

-Our servers will be open soon.

-Everything is ranked, and we hope you Enjoy!

TR.
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Soul
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Soul »

You have to pay for membership, lol?
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Renegade »

Soul wrote:You have to pay for membership, lol?
+1


xd this is unfortunate
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Light
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Light »

Renegade wrote:xd this is unfortunate
lol I saw that and lost interest before I even looked at everything.

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orion
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by orion »

Light wrote:
Renegade wrote:xd this is unfortunate
lol I saw that and lost interest before I even looked at everything.
First, dont be disrespectful.
Second, im giving a service, im giving you competitions every weekend, ranking system, a monetary tournament and one month free.
Do you want a person do that for free? Are you telling me $10 is a high Price?

Its a service for competitive players, you could like it or not.
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Light
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Light »

orion wrote:First, dont be disrespectful.
Second, im giving a service, im giving you competitions every weekend, ranking system, a monetary tournament and one month free.
Do you want a person do that for free? Are you telling me $10 is a high Price?

Its a service for competitive players, you could like it or not.
I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I just don't think it's worth money to play in a tournament.

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orion
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by orion »

Light wrote:
orion wrote:First, dont be disrespectful.
Second, im giving a service, im giving you competitions every weekend, ranking system, a monetary tournament and one month free.
Do you want a person do that for free? Are you telling me $10 is a high Price?

Its a service for competitive players, you could like it or not.
I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I just don't think it's worth money to play in a tournament.
4 tournaments in a month you mean, its ok.
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compguygene
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by compguygene »

Interesting idea. However, you should all consider a few problems with the current implementation of this.

Problem #1, and probably the biggest and most dangerous: collecting money via PayPal for a competitive videogame tournament in which players will be monetarily rewarded. This was debated a year or 2 ago, several of us spent some time reading the PayPal terms of service. What you are doing is specifically prohibited. As a practical thing, you might "fly under the radar" and not get caught, for a while. However, I am of the opinion that many of the tronners out there are pretty darned ethical people and would not like the idea of participating in something that is prohibited by the payment processing company you are using.

Problem #2. You seem to be able to provide 2 hosting servers. So, for these tournaments that "you" are hosting, you would be depending upon server donations. I don't know about other server owners, but I certainly am not going to be donating servers to tournaments that are hosted by an organization that is profiting from the tournament, unless they are doing something to contribute to my server costs.

Problem #3. This is part philosophical, part business. Philosophically speaking, you are trying to charge a fee for people to be ranked in tournaments in what is an open source game that has successfully hosted these tournaments in the past without your service, and can continue to do so with a vibrant community of players, volunteers, and server owners. Business-wise, I don't see the value you are bringing. Based on a few posts in reaction, I am not alone in that belief.

You do realize that if you go forward, it would take very little effort on my part, and the part of others to put up competing tournaments that are free to enter. As to a ranking system for players? Well, we can coordinate something. Really, its about time we do. It seems to me you are trying to take over all existing tournaments, except the Ladle, and profit from it. Good luck with that, you will need it.
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Zenith »

I agree with compguy.
I don't think enough people would want to play in this, just my opinion.

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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Light »

compguygene wrote:Problem #1, and probably the biggest and most dangerous: collecting money via PayPal for a competitive videogame tournament in which players will be monetarily rewarded. This was debated a year or 2 ago, several of us spent some time reading the PayPal terms of service. What you are doing is specifically prohibited. As a practical thing, you might "fly under the radar" and not get caught, for a while. However, I am of the opinion that many of the tronners out there are pretty darned ethical people and would not like the idea of participating in something that is prohibited by the payment processing company you are using.
The problem goes beyond being prohibited. If he's paying out whatever percentage, he is risking actually losing money anyways. People can very easily get their money back when it comes to Paypal transfers for "virtual goods". All they'd have to do is claim they didn't get something, and he can't provide proof that they did. I'm not sure virtual goods are even really supported, as they usually ask for confirmation of delivery, like tracking numbers. Even when there was no physical item. I've dealt with that problem in the past when buying / selling items in games.
compguygene wrote:Problem #2. You seem to be able to provide 2 hosting servers. So, for these tournaments that "you" are hosting, you would be depending upon server donations. I don't know about other server owners, but I certainly am not going to be donating servers to tournaments that are hosted by an organization that is profiting from the tournament, unless they are doing something to contribute to my server costs.
I didn't catch that, but thath only makes it worse. I'm sure he could get some server donations by people who just donate to anything, but I don't think it would be constant for something they probably can't even play in if they wanted to. With Brawl, Ladle, etc. at least I could play if I wanted to, rather than donating a server and being locked out. Maybe just a personal problem?
compguygene wrote:Problem #3. This is part philosophical, part business. Philosophically speaking, you are trying to charge a fee for people to be ranked in tournaments in what is an open source game that has successfully hosted these tournaments in the past without your service, and can continue to do so with a vibrant community of players, volunteers, and server owners. Business-wise, I don't see the value you are bringing. Based on a few posts in reaction, I am not alone in that belief.
I am going to disagree with you a little here. I don't see a problem with adding things and trying to make some money off of it. I don't think he's adding enough for it to be worth money, but I guess that's debatable to the person that is supposed to do the spending.
compguygene wrote:You do realize that if you go forward, it would take very little effort on my part, and the part of others to put up competing tournaments that are free to enter. As to a ranking system for players? Well, we can coordinate something. Really, its about time we do.
A ranking system isn't hard to implement. You could go as far as to automate sign-ups, have the server provide the server you should play in, and it only allow the people supposed to play to join. After that, seeing the winner and ranking however you'd like isn't very difficult. That's going a bit more out there though, as I assume it's probably a manual system like his other.

Of course, automated systems for gametypes like DF couldn't possibly work. Maybe have specified refs and they could click something to be set to show they are reffing (really doesn't seem like a word) and then that person could choose which user won. Just thoughts which I'm sure would probably change as it was all tested if it were to ever happen. :P

Overall .. I don't see enough of a lack of tournaments to care for something like that. If you ever want more tournaments, just about anyone can host them. Getting server donations is not insanely hard, and usually if you're in a position to want to host, you know someone that would help you, or you host yourself.

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Gazelle
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by Gazelle »

Guys its only for VIP status... I dont think that means we cant compete, we just wont gain money.

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orion
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by orion »

compguygene wrote:Interesting idea. However, you should all consider a few problems with the current implementation of this.

Problem #1, and probably the biggest and most dangerous: collecting money via PayPal for a competitive videogame tournament in which players will be monetarily rewarded. This was debated a year or 2 ago, several of us spent some time reading the PayPal terms of service. What you are doing is specifically prohibited. As a practical thing, you might "fly under the radar" and not get caught, for a while. However, I am of the opinion that many of the tronners out there are pretty darned ethical people and would not like the idea of participating in something that is prohibited by the payment processing company you are using.

Problem #2. You seem to be able to provide 2 hosting servers. So, for these tournaments that "you" are hosting, you would be depending upon server donations. I don't know about other server owners, but I certainly am not going to be donating servers to tournaments that are hosted by an organization that is profiting from the tournament, unless they are doing something to contribute to my server costs.

Problem #3. This is part philosophical, part business. Philosophically speaking, you are trying to charge a fee for people to be ranked in tournaments in what is an open source game that has successfully hosted these tournaments in the past without your service, and can continue to do so with a vibrant community of players, volunteers, and server owners. Business-wise, I don't see the value you are bringing. Based on a few posts in reaction, I am not alone in that belief.

You do realize that if you go forward, it would take very little effort on my part, and the part of others to put up competing tournaments that are free to enter. As to a ranking system for players? Well, we can coordinate something. Really, its about time we do. It seems to me you are trying to take over all existing tournaments, except the Ladle, and profit from it. Good luck with that, you will need it.

Thanks for your post comp, looks lot better than others.

1# If im not wrong you were trying to make a single tournament where the winner gain money. Its a system, im giving you a service, many of the people who Works with a PC use paypal "personal users" option

2# I dont need donation, it was the first thing i wanted to change on this community some tournaments looks really unorganised. I have my own servers for host everything the players only need to sign up to it.

3# everything you are saying here is right, but for what i saw, people claims for more tournaments, so im giving you it (with the ranking system plus)
Im giving you tournaments weekly, i dont think nobody could do that for free and im not asking for much money. The rankings system not only give you a plus motivations, it gives you the chance of play the monetary tournament.

In my opinión it could be a great jump in the community, but yes, me or nobody could do that for free. Im giving you the chance to test the system for one month free.
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by compguygene »

Let me quote the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
[quote"PayPal"]involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law.

[/quote]

You are talking about a service that after an initial, free trial requires you to pay $10 USD and will have a cash prize sometime in the future. That would be gaming with an entry fee and a prize. Even if that prize if for the winner(s) of a season, not just one tournament, it still fits the strict definition here.

I am still curious about your hosting. You do realize that when these tournaments are hosted right, it is one gameserver per hosting server. At most you might be able to run 2 servers per hosting server. How many hosting servers do you have or plan to setup?

Also, it is unclear on your website as to what the $10 USD covers, it is a month, a year?

Please don't take my criticism too harshly. I really think you need to fine tune and better define some things.
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by orion »

compguygene wrote:Let me quote the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
[quote"PayPal"]involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law.
compguygene wrote:You are talking about a service that after an initial, free trial requires you to pay $10 USD and will have a cash prize sometime in the future. That would be gaming with an entry fee and a prize. Even if that prize if for the winner(s) of a season, not just one tournament, it still fits the strict definition here.

I am still curious about your hosting. You do realize that when these tournaments are hosted right, it is one gameserver per hosting server. At most you might be able to run 2 servers per hosting server. How many hosting servers do you have or plan to setup?

Also, it is unclear on your website as to what the $10 USD covers, it is a month, a year?

Please don't take my criticism too harshly. I really think you need to fine tune and better define some things.
No problem comp, i appreciate it, for now.

I can send money to the winner like I send money to a family/friend (there is an option). Cash prize tournament is every December.

Tron Rankings will have 12 servers up tomorrow, surely. The payment is montly, maybe I was wrong I didnt notice.
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Re: Tron Ranking System opening now!

Post by compguygene »

Just to be clear, I really don't think you understand the terms of service. Yes, you can do this as personal stuff, like friends and family. Yes, you might never get caught. Let me enlighten you as to how these types of violations of the Acceptable Use Agreement are caught. Refunds. If anybody ever disputes a charge with PayPal, an investigation will happen, and that is when you have a problem. Yes you can do it, that doesn't mean that what you are doing is not in violation of PayPal's policies.

By 12 servers, do you mean 12 GameServers, or 12 hosting servers? Just to clarify. How many in the USA, how many in Europe? Where in the USA and Europe?

It will be interesting to see how many tronners are willing to pay $10 USD to play weekly in tournaments. You are talking about $120/year! I gotta wonder how many people are going to pay more for this service than they pay for Xbox Live.
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