Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

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Concord
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Concord »

sumo is a tricky bastard and leagues are tricky bastards. I'm going to lay out the fundamental issues that need solving in any new "thing" that we might decide to do.

The overall goal is simple: competitive, regular, frequent sumo matches in an organized format that coronates a winner.

The big problem is that people don't show up consistently. Here are the reasons why:
  • Matches are too short to bother showing up
  • Individual matches seem meaningless, compared to the direct meaning of a tournament. This is the short attention span problem.
  • No investment in the outcome - part of a random team they don't care about
  • No certainty that making an effort to show up means playing a match that matters: teammates may not show up, too many teammates may show up, opponent may not show up. All could result in the individual not playing.
  • Opponents are too easy (or) too hard = not fun
I think for these reasons, we should just rule team modes out altogether. Even the minimal team mode: 2v2, relies on 4 specific different players showing up to have a match. If the teams have subs, then that means on average, players will not play 1/ (# of extras) of the matches. Teammodes are not viable, in my opinion.

There already is a kind of sumo-tournament circuit. There are 1v1 tournaments, SBT, TST, WST, these happen frequently, sort of like Tennis or Golf tournaments. A league does not need to replace or compete with them, (we don't need to replace or compete with wimbledon) it should compliment them.

We already have a sort of Global Sumo Tour. We already have our major events, we just need to fill in the gaps. We need competitive sumo play every weekend, as a compliment to the more meaningful major tournaments.

It would be a good thing, I think if the various sumo modes united under one schedule to form such the Tour. Classic 1x4 in February, TST in March, 1v1 in June, WST in September, SBT in December, or something. Then maybe one day every non-Major week there's a match window. From 12pm GMT to 12am EST, or something, matches played in some Tour server will count towards Rankings, in some scoring system. Not ELO, because it needs to work for multiple game modes. We could implement the /warmup code from pickup to make sure only real matches are being counted, where everyone is aware of the league play. GIDs from a Tour authority could be required, and could track player rankings. The major tournaments would then uses these rankings to seed their brackets.Tournament results would have a strong influence on rankings as well.

What you have then is not really a league, but it provides what I believe sumo is missing. The problems of leagues are mostly solved. You can participate as you wish, you can join and leave at any time. You never have to show up, but if you do, you will almost always be able to play. It's competitive, and we get outcomes. It requires a good server and a good website, and it would help if sumo tourney organizers joined in and organized their Majors into some sort of schedule. Thoughts?

Concord
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Concord »

what do people think?

It mostly revolves around a server, which I would need help with.

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ElmosWorld
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by ElmosWorld »

I liked it the way it was when it disbanded. Different types different days with team management. If there was a server I think it would have succeeded.
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Vogue
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Vogue »

The previous league was fine before you killed it.

Concord
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Concord »

it was the 10% attendance rate that was killing it. I just euthanized it. It clearly wasn't fine.

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Soul
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Soul »

Concord wrote:it was the 10% attendance rate that was killing it. I just euthanized it. It clearly wasn't fine.
This.

I think the reason a lot of people didn't show up was that it was way too confusing. No one knew who they would be playing, when they would play, or even whether or not they'd play at all.

The first league was good. Maybe just do that but instead of 1v1 have it be 3v3 or sumobar.
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Concord
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Concord »

Well, anyway, here's elo rankings for 1v1 while we wait for something better. I don't if any good 1v1 servers are up. Server settings are attached if anyone wants to host what, if previous experience is any indication, will probably be a pretty popular server. Also, if any admin with a server who wants to create an automated process, just pm me what you need from me.

Code: Select all

#user settings
AUTO_TEAM_SPEC_SPAM 0
BUG_COLOR_OVERFLOW 1
FILTER_COLOR_NAMES 1
LAST_CHAT_BREAK_TIME -3
NETWORK_AUTOBAN_FACTOR 100
NETWORK_AUTOBAN_MAX_KPH 300
NETWORK_AUTOBAN_OFFSET -.05
PLAYER_CHAT_WAIT_FRACTION 0.05.
PLAYER_CHAT_WAIT_MAX 1
SPAM_PROTECTION 2
SPAM_PROTECTION_CHAT .33
SPAM_PROTECTION_REPEAT 2


#map settings
ALLOW_TEAM_NAME_PLAYER 1
AUTO_TEAM 0
CYCLE_ACCEL 20.0
CYCLE_DELAY 0.1
CYCLE_RUBBER 5
CYCLE_RUBBER_LEGACY 0
CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK 1
CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK_OVERRIDE 0
CYCLE_SPEED 30
DOUBLEBIND_TIME -10
ENEMY_CURRENTTIME_INFLUENCE 0.5
ENEMY_DEAD_PENALTY 5.0
ENEMY_SUICIDE_TIMEOUT 10.0
ENEMY_TEAMMATE_PENALTY 9.5
EXPLOSION_RADIUS 2
FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_MIN 1
FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_RATIO 1
FORTRESS_CONQUERED_SCORE 0
FORTRESS_CONQUERED_WIN 1
FORTRESS_CONQUEST_DECAY_RATE -.3
FORTRESS_CONQUEST_RATE 0
FORTRESS_CONQUEST_TIMEOUT 5
FORTRESS_DEFEND_RATE .6
FORTRESS_SURVIVE_WIN 1
GAME_TYPE 1
GLOBAL_ID 1
LIMIT_SCORE 999999
LIMIT_ROUNDS 999999
LIMIT_TIME 12
MAP_FILE Durka/sumo/arena-1.aamap.xml
MAP_FILE_OVERRIDE 0
SCORE_DIE  0
SCORE_HOLE 0
SCORE_KILL 0
SCORE_SUICIDE 0 
SCORE_SURVIVE 0
SCORE_WIN 1
SIZE_FACTOR 1
SP_EXPLOSION_RADIUS 2
SP_GAME_TYPE 1
SP_LIMIT_ROUNDS 100
SP_MIN_PLAYERS 0
SP_SIZE_FACTOR 1
SP_SCORE_WIN 1
SP_TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS 1
SP_WALLS_LENGTH 400
TEAM_ALLOW_SHUFFLE_UP 1
TEAM_BALANCE_WITH_AIS 0
TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS 1
TEAM_MAX_IMBALANCE 0
TEAM_MIN_PLAYERS 1
TEAMS_MAX 2
TEAMS_MIN 2
WALLS_LENGTH 400
WIN_ZONE_EXPANSION 0
WIN_ZONE_INITIAL_SIZE 0
WIN_ZONE_MIN_LAST_DEATH 9999999
WIN_ZONE_MIN_ROUND_TIME 9999999
WIN_ZONE_RANDOMNESS 0
ACCESS_LEVEL START_NEW_MATCH 15

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RoterBaron1337
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by RoterBaron1337 »

Vogue wrote:The previous league was fine before you killed it.
*cough* so where all clans before you killed them *cough*

i still would consider to make like 18 people join a table and would make a ranking games (like in football) and let those play and submit the kills + deaths + draws and people are only allowed to play twice against the opponent .. like back and back play?
Last edited by RoterBaron1337 on Fri May 17, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RoterBaron1337
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by RoterBaron1337 »

delete this.. i dont know why this keeps double posting
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bilbo baggins
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by bilbo baggins »

RoterBaron1337 wrote:i still would consider to make like 18 people join a table and would make a ranking games (like in football) and let those play and submit the kills + deaths + draws and people are only allowed to play twice against the opponent .. like back and back play?
also that means that players from different parts of the globe can play together (1 home match, 1 away match e.g a USA player and an EU player play in EU server first then US server)

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RoterBaron1337
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by RoterBaron1337 »

yea thats what i wanted to make i mean its quite a nice idea .. why not give it a try for 1v1 tournament
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orion
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by orion »

What about this?

Fort/Sumo oficial circuit (inspired on ATP tennis)

I will give examples as explanation

1v1 Sumo tournament: 2000 points (yo be played 2 times in the year)
2nd: 1500; 3rd and 4th: 1000

Bowl: 1500 points (to be played 1 time in the year)
2nd: 1000; 3rd and 4th: 750

TsT: 1000 points (to be played 3 times in the year)
2nd: 750; 3rd and 4th: 500

WST: 500 (to be played 4 times in the year)
2nd: 250; 3rd and 4th: 100

Ladle: 250 points (to be played 12 times in he year)
2nd: 100; 3rd and 4th: 50

Each player will get points depending how far they got, on the first year everyone will start from 0 and the next year each player will defend all points they have got, here is an example.

Dreadlord won: 1v1 sumo january, ladle september, ladle november, got in semis ladle december, got 2nd on wst may = 2800 points.
Dreadlord now have to defend these points or he will loss it.

I think its a good idea to keep players motivated on play any tournament, the points could be fixed.
We dont need to wait cody, luck or anyone to make a tournament, just make an official calendar and make the tournament happen.

Any doubts?
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Gazelle
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Gazelle »

I really really like that Orion, it makes every tournament mean something more! Most likely causing players to play with more intensity making every tournament more difficult and more fun!

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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by Zenith »

Great idea Orion. If servers aren't an issue, I'm 100% with your idea.

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ElmosWorld
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Re: Sumo league - discussion, interest, brainstorming

Post by ElmosWorld »

How do you defend points?
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