Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

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Vogue
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Vogue »

Venijn wrote:So, another idea dies?
Nope. SP approached UNK regarding this, maybe they've talked to other clans as well but I'm not sure about it, maybe you could contact these two teams about it? Regardless, we should do this in public instead of behind the scenes, IMO.

Venijn
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Venijn »

Vogue wrote:
Venijn wrote:So, another idea dies?
Nope. SP approached UNK regarding this, maybe they've talked to other clans as well but I'm not sure about it, maybe you could contact these two teams about it? Regardless, we should do this in public instead of behind the scenes, IMO.
Agreed. All clans or no clans, how would it work otherwise?
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woof
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by woof »

Venijn wrote: All clans or no clans

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Pr3
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Pr3 »

We talked about an alliance between uNk, Sp, and other teams (Undecided). Which is separate from the FSU idea here.
The alliance agreement includes for example:
*Always be friendly and and respectful to one clan to another, including members and not just the clan name.
*Stand together on things we both agree on.
*boycott those things if we agree to.
*blacklist people so we cant recruit them. (valid reason needed).

Ultimately, it's a step towards FSU, which I hope we can still fine tune and implement.

Nub
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Nub »

Venijn wrote:So, another idea dies?
Don't say things like this, this idea is awesome, and takes time to implement. This topic was created what, 2 weeks ago? Don't expect this to just form up overnight. If it's thrown together hastily, the idea won't stick.

Just give it time, clan leaders are discussing things, and hopefully eventually this will happen. This is where the ideas get hashed out people.
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delinquent
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by delinquent »

I wonder if we can't form a couple of alliances. It might help to have two or three, and work towards integrating them.

On the other hand, it could get very messy.

K-Yo
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by K-Yo »

I haven't time to read all this topic unfortunately. I would still like to add my contribution to the reflexion.

* Where does the need for this come from? It seems to me the first problem is players being "stolen" from one clan to another.
Without going into the debate "should rules and behaviors online be the same as IRL", every human is free to do whatever he likes (with constraints of course). If someone wants to go to another clan, suits him. being a clan hopper will be badly seen in most clans, and clans "stealing" a lot of players will have a bad reputation as well.

----

To answer flex (page 2 iirc), CT answered your alliance proposal, should be in your PMs somewhere.
CT's position (my words may not reflect the exact position of CT since I'm just giving my opinion on decision making for the clan) is the following:
We try to keep a friendly behavior with most players and clans out there. Some CT players may be aggressive or despicable towards some other people in the community. This is not the clan's view. We are all free to have our own opinion but are meant to behave well when we wear the tag. Failure to do so leads to no internal punishment whatsoever.
We don't want to be bound to rules we already try to follow.

Here's a more personal opinion on the subject
*Always be friendly and and respectful to one clan to another, including members and not just the clan name.
I'm against hypocrisy, be respectful with people you respect and not people you don't. You don't have to be mean to them though, ignoring them is peaceful.
*Stand together on things we both agree on.
Who doesn't do that?
*boycott those things if we agree to.
Same, it's logic. If there is a need for such a rule, that means people might not want to do it. If they don't want to do it, then it's not something they agree to...
*blacklist people so we cant recruit them. (valid reason needed).
what does that mean? getting closer to fascism.


These rules look dangerous to me, you guys should think a lot before agreeing on following them. Or just break them afterwards, but that doesn't mean much then...

----

In brief - and other CT members may add details/corrections - CT will probably not anytime soon be part of such comittee (but some of its members can do whatever they want). And our servers will probably not follow any global ban list or set of rules defined by any kind of comitee.
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delinquent
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by delinquent »

Except in regards to Swiss

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Pr3
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Pr3 »

Your option is.. lets do nothing? It's easy to talk civility ... maybe because it hasn't happened to you yet. Will you feel the same if it did? What we what is a better gaming community. The FSU is for problems we haven't even thought of yet. We need something to bar players from committing these malicious acts without punishment. Every professional league has it's rules, but it also has it's punishments. A professional game without rules allows bad apples to ruin the gaming community. Could it get to the point where someone convinces one of your best players to lose the ladle on purpose. Could it get that bad? There has to be some justice against these actions. Freedom comes at a price. Must we play with people who what to win at any cost? Who will destroy anyone who gets in their way. Who has no care for who is on the other side of the keyboard. Zeros and ones.. not real people. They do this in cyber space because they can get away with it. There are bad people in this community right now. People who shouldn't be on this game and are trying to lead it. Destroying the game we love. We aren't coming up with rules you can't think of. Their common sense rules. You don't recruit a team member when their already on a team. You need integrity to have a good gaming community. This should be a place where people feel safe. A place where we can build a better gaming environment. We're trying to make it a better place here. If you think this is one person's view of the rules… it's not. These will be a set of rules setup by the entire community. They'll make the right adjustments to these rules. Just like this is my opinion about this idea of the FSU. It will change, it will become more common sense. Hey this is integrity, this is what kind people do, if you can't stand for these rules then don't join the FSU. As a team leader, if you're not going to help the game get better... what are you here for? Why not make it better while you're here. I don't plan on playing Armagetron forever, but before i do leave - I'd like to make it a better place. 99% of our community is great; however, there's that one percent that can ruin the entire game. We have to have the power to stop that one percent. The game doesn't give us justice.. we have to make our own. Lets do something. Why are you standing still? How about contributing to making this game better. How can we make it better? Let the 99% solve the problem of the 1%. I know a lot of people don't care as much, but there has to be few who can come together to solve these sort of problems. Rules that everyone agrees on. Don't let the 1% rule you. And don't sit on the side lines while the 1% steals and cheats their way to victories.

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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Word »

The FSU is for problems we haven't even thought of yet.
Come on, that members are "stolen" isn't anything new. That there suddenly needs to be an organization to prevent that once it happened to clans who didn't use to have that problem is funny. Basic integrity can't be enforced through an institution.
What kind of clan-related problem didn't we have yet? The only one I can think of is a scenario similiar to this, which is actually caused by such alliances.
The game doesn't give us justice.. we have to make our own. Lets do something. Why are you standing still? How about contributing to making this game better. How can we make it better? Let the 99% solve the problem of the 1%.
Caesar must die! Caesar must die! Yeah, let's institutionalize the angry mob.
Last edited by Word on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bytes
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Bytes »

This does seem to be slipping out of basic guidelines into full blown melodrama.

Also you have got to distinguish between 2 things, those that are 'rule-breaking' and those that are merely impolite. Stealing players isn't cheating, at worst it's just inconsiderate.

Also Caesar :P
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Word
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Word »

Bytes wrote:Also Caesar :P
Ooops, should know that it's the same in English (especially as an archaeology student..). Fixed. :oops:

K-Yo
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by K-Yo »

Pr3 wrote:maybe because it hasn't happened to you yet. Will you feel the same if it did?
If you mean CT has never had players being "stolen" by other clans, that's false. We had. some CT players were upset. If the players feel better some other place, let them go, it's stupid to force them to stay...

I believe arma has much more problems to solve before solving problems that do not exist yet.
I believe that it's not possible to have everyone agree on something, so some people won't follow these rules.
I believe that this is the internet, it's decentralized, and it's how it became so powerful.
I'm not saying this should not happen, I'm saying this should NOT be something all the community follows

Pr3 wrote:As a team leader, if you're not going to help the game get better... what are you here for?
It's a game, I'm here to play and enjoy it. I am also trying to make the game better by solving problems that exist.
Pr3 wrote:Let the 99% solve the problem of the 1%
I'm sorry but I can't help thinking about dictatorship.
Take minecraft as a comparison. Grieving is "bad" for most people, because it annoys them. Well, in some servers it's forbidden and punished. In others it's OK. That's freedom. Everyone is free to apply the rules they want in their server.

The FSU can have a good impact, it can lead to a group of rules that each server owner decides to follow or not. I just believe CT (because this is where I'm involved) should not "sign" anything.
Pr3 wrote:Rules that everyone agrees on
Agreed, make the rules and people may choose to follow them if they're good


Note: I am not sure if you were replying my comment or not... If not sorry for my off topic answer and please be more explicit next time =)
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Gonzap »

Well Pr3's answer is so random you may think it's directed to someone else but no, it's directed to you K-Yo. But he hasn't really answered or replied to anything you said or pointed out, he just wanted to spit out what he thought had to be said. Well, these rules are stupid and K-Yo said why in his first post already, if you can't come up with something better then we can drop the committee idea. For example: stand together on things we both agree? Real? Doesn't it happen already? Is it necessary a committee to stand together on things we both agree?

Also, while players being stolen sucks, think about it as you can get rid of people who aren't compromised to your clan. It is bad, disrespectful and low, but oh well, there's always a bright side on problems. I think the tronic gossip is waaay more hurtful and despicable right now. Whoever created it, he/she wants to be evil for the sake of being evil. You gain nothing there but feeling pity for the writers.

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Soul
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Soul »

K-Yo wrote:
Pr3 wrote:maybe because it hasn't happened to you yet. Will you feel the same if it did?
If you mean CT has never had players being "stolen" by other clans, that's false. We had.
And both the person who "stole" a member from ct and the person who was stolen are both in your clan now, pr3. :roll:

Everything Gonzap, Kyo, and Word have said I agree with.
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