Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

A place for threads related to tournaments and the like, and things related too.

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Venijn
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Venijn »

Bytes wrote:Personally I'd prefer this to be some kind of mediatory committee as opposed to some kind of judging committee. I believe it would be more likely to be used and players would feel less like it was some kind of over reaching power trying to control them. Phoenix being a clan on neutral stance with most clans, I wouldn't really want us to get involved in judging other clans, but would be more than happy to be a neutral side in discussion.
This is of course my opinion and not a representation of the clan's.
Although broadly speaking, it is a shared view within Phoenix.

Pr3 your FSL ides is a good one too, it's been tried a few times, how would we ensure this one happens? I think the FSL may be a better way around it, as the current idea gives an option to clans to simply opt-out without losing anything major, for example, RD as a clan (mostly not as individuals) have a pretty poor reputation, what difference would this make to them? At least with the FSL there's the incentive for involvement.

One thing which may work, is to create a working group to explore this in more detail, before posting their findings/proposal of a working model here for us to vote on. Too often, threads are made with brilliant ideas, they become "ideathons," and nothing changes. Also, perhaps you could introduce the monetary and universal login systems Concord did in ISL, it's a great model to work from. It's popular, and it works.

As it's a massive change, let's begin to discuss the first actions required to make it happen.

This Forum is great and all, but I imagine there's a fair few people with opinions on this who don't have the confidence to post them. There's a real "top-down" attitude to this place, with the assumptions broadly based around length of playing time. People get pretty savagely attacked for stating their opinion on a massive change to our system, that's not hugely welcoming. That also needs to change. We're discussing this in great depth on our forums, I hope other clans are doing the same.

As for the debate for whether Leaders should be involved, that should be a matter for the clans to decide.
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þsy
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by þsy »

The only point I'd like to add to this discussion is that whilst it's great to talk about these things, most ideas here require a fair investment of time by one or two people into setting up such a system. Are there people here who are prepared to commit to such a task?

I think once we've got a general idea for what to do, it'd be better to just make it, and then make changes in hindsight. It's very easy to talk things to death, with nothing ever happening
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Venijn »

Venijn wrote: One thing which may work, is to create a working group to explore this in more detail, before posting their findings/proposal of a working model here for us to vote on. Too often, threads are made with brilliant ideas, they become "ideathons," and nothing changes.
I think there should be more than one or two exploring this, a small team, if you like. But the idea is the same. if anything is to happen, volunteers need to be sought to explore it further.

Also yay, pagebreak. :)
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Titanoboa
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Titanoboa »

We couldn't handle a virtual gossip newspaper and you expect us to handle a serious clan committee?

And all this "stealing members" thing is tiring to hear about. In the end what actually happens is the player leaves their clan to apply for another clan that seems better for them. I mean, too bad for the old clan, but shouldn't a player have the freedom to leave their clan if they so wish? Good luck "stealing" a player from a clan that they're truly happy with.
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Concord »

Titanoboa wrote:We couldn't handle a virtual gossip newspaper and you expect us to handle a serious clan committee?
Actually, only Soul couldn't handle it.

there's a distinction to be drawn between people who play fortress and people who are fortress players. The latter group rarely creates any trouble for itself, for obvious reasons. Fortress players care about the game and put it above other things.
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Soul
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Soul »

Concord wrote:
Titanoboa wrote:We couldn't handle a virtual gossip newspaper and you expect us to handle a serious clan committee?
Actually, only Soul couldn't handle it.
Lol, what are you talking about dude?
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woof
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by woof »

Concord wrote: Actually, only Soul couldn't handle it.
It definitely isn't Soul causing the trouble on fortfix.
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Venijn »

So, any volunteers? I'd be happy to look at how this could work, but I'm sure you'd find better candidates amongst us.
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Fippmam
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Fippmam »

I'd also be willing to delve further into it. Titan was right though - we might wanna go slow and steady, so it doesn't blow up in our face.
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PyrrhicVictory
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by PyrrhicVictory »

Fippmam wrote:I'd also be willing to delve further into it. Titan was right though - we might wanna go slow and steady, so it doesn't blow up in our face.
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delinquent
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by delinquent »

PyrrhicVictory wrote:
Fippmam wrote:slow and steady.
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-*inS*-
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by -*inS*- »

Hi

I think this FSU is a good idea as a somewhat United Nations of Tron Clans.

A few things hinge on this working however:

1. You have to believe that the majority of this community are good people and that problems arise from a breakdown in communication rather than character flaws. If someone is a jerk, a committee is unlikely to change who they are. However maybe they can help resolve misunderstandings and smaller conflicts. I don't think anyone here is as bad as some of the players in the LoL community, so maybe we have a chance here.

2. There would need to be a well defined purpose for what the committee does. For example a few people are bringing up baylife. I'm not sure how that applies? We played under aliases and won a ladle, big deal. How many people can say that I disrespected them personally by doing that (I'll go with maybe a few of my clan mates [not all cared] and probably 2 other people max). Yeah if the committee is designed to handle petty shit like that count SP out.

3. There really is no effective "punishment" that can be applied. Sure you can try to stop people from playing in the ladle, but as long as they have a few friends, they can just play under alias, maybe change their ip and be right back at it. The only real way is to go for the "Tr2n" approach where they restricted auth accounts. This could be done @ladle and solve a lot of our problems, but who would run it? Look at fortfix all it takes is one person who's unhappy and the whole thing blows up. We can't afford that happening to the ladle.

Tl;dr: I think the only way for this to work is to tie it to @ladle which could potentially be a very bad idea.
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Vogue
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Vogue »

If we can track who does what, unlike on fortfix, there won't be an issue with the dangers you're describing.
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Shock »

It may be only me, but following the progress of this idea is a little confusing. I am writing a really visual example of an organized and accountable system following this. Again, I don't know where this whole idea is going, so here is something to talk about!

Notice the difference in the following between clans/groups and tourney teams.
Suppose currency is used to get into tournies. It costs 1 Ladle Dollar to get your team into a ladle tourney, 1 WST Dollar to get in WST, etc. An organization can be created that distributes this currency and becomes a medium for tourney creators and teams. All teams that are signed up with the organization get an income of 1 Ladle Dollar a month (same for other tournies like WST but adjusted for different amounts of time between each tourney) automatically. Transgressions will cost a team money, and the team would have to sit out for a certain amount of time. Possibly there could be alternative methods of increasing income. Transgressions in this organization are determined by the "round table" of clans. Not teams. You can't spam teams into the organization to get more votes in the "round table". For example, CT has usually two teams for Ladle. Each of the teams gains an income each month, but CT only gets one vote in matters of transgression. So every clan that takes part in tournies (or whatever) gets a vote in the organization (including groups like Revolver). When players want to make an alias or new team for Ladle, the team could be able to join the Ladle if they gain two votes in the organization. In other words, if two clans vouch for the team then the team can play. So, there is a really obvious hierarchical system where alias teams can't really vote and you kind of have to be part of a clan or group to get a say in what happens.

I've been trying to brainstorm open organizations that still work really well. My example will make tournies pretty darn closed to outsiders. It's not near perfect, but there should be more concrete advice in this thread!

edit: Oh, is this similar to Concord's ISL?
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Venijn
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Venijn »

So, another idea dies?
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