Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

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Fippmam
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Fippmam »

Gazelle wrote:i dislike the tags FSU, as im a Miami Hurricane fan.. Rivals :D only college football/basketball fans would get this.
Noles > Gators > Hurricanes (P.S I'm not biased because i go to FSU)

This sounds like an awesome idea. A community styled hegemony is exactly what the community needs for really malicious matters that involve a lot of players (e.g clan site hacking, baylife, preSsure, etc). Sure there'd be friction if for example, sine and flex were their clan's representative, but who said the clan leader had to be the representative? I honestly think It'd be better if clan leaders were not allowed to be representatives as these are usually the people that all of a clan's hatred are relayed on. The organization would need neutral and unbiased players.

@Pyrrhic D= I see this ending badly. You're essentially pushing for inter-clan organized mutiny. I really only see this working if the leader is so bad, that it's a universal consensus. It'd suck if a clan were split 50/50, over whether a leader was to be impeached; It'd suck is 50% of a clan left because they didn't get their way. It'd suck, but it'd also be hilarious. :D

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vov
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by vov »

This post is mostly directed at Flex, but also for clarifying things that may not have been clear in my previous post (3. and 6.). No need to read that much text if you're not interested in either. If mods/admins don't like this post (as it is partly off-topic) and want to delete it, please leave point 3. and 6. intact.
Flex wrote:1. Here you are actually trying to look down on me, as if you and I are comparable. As if you have made more or even the same amount of contributions to this game/community, as me. 2. You're nothing but a troll 3. and look what clan you're in; "Redemption", a reason why we're on this subject 4. and look what stance you're in now, trying to make sure the community isn't in a dialogue between each other, oh and on the basis of what? Where does this stemp from? I have no bloody clue! 5. Your hate for me come the same way you came from, out of the woodworks.
6. You even suggest that all it takes is to ask people to stop flaming and it doesn't require a community for that. 7. Well here I am, asking you to get off my dick.
1. Oh cool, you say "I have done more than you". For what point of this discussion is this important? (if it were true, but that's a whole other story)
-> I just see some mad guy trying to flame bait. Which I DO look down upon. Stop it. It doesn't help you, nor me, nor anyone else.
2. Correct, I am a troll, but there are different types of trolls. I never try to harm or insult anyone who is friendly to me. For you I have no respect, because you are a flamer.
3. It is the reason YOU are on this subject. My post was from a point of view entirely independent from said clan. I have always been independent from it if no one ever has noticed it. I play in a team with other players. That's it. I like to play this game in a team with them, more than I would like to be in a team with some others (more than e.g you on that matter, for reasons stated in 1. and 2.). I do not participate in things other people on my team do if I don't like that. If people don't think this way, or even, like you apparently, don't think that others think this way, then I hereby correct you. A clan is not a team. I do not like the actions you associate with the clan whose team I am part of, the fact that I play for the team somehow makes you think I am though. This is not the case. If it were, flaming wouldn't be the right way nevertheless.
4. I can't read this, I assume you mean "You don't want us to find a solution to this problem" which is wrong, explained in part 3 of this post and part 1 of my previous one.
5. My personal disrespect for you comes from your behaviour to me and others, if your behaviour is located in the woodworks then you are right. Otherwise not. (The flaming part of this is already covered in 1.)
6 I am asking you to stop flaming right now. If you can't do it, then I will just continue to ignore you which I already always do on the grid. If you want to try to be smart now: The reason why I didn't ignore your post is a) to try again to ask you to stop flaming and b) because the community is involved in a way that could lead to unnessecary things because of your posts. Of course it does require a community for that. I just prefer not having a government-like institution which rules over the (fort and/or sumo) community and all of its subcommunities which I already stated in my 1st post; because I did never see the need for one and it may as well lead to more complications; particularly the committee/government being involved in making the drama and then ruling over others because they have more power. If it goes well, they only have as much power as the whole community grants them, but as member of said community, I vote against it.
7. Reading this as "f**k off", I won't, because of 6.b (The flaming part of this is already covered in 1.)

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vov
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by vov »

Fippmam wrote:The organization would need neutral and unbiased players.
This is the only way this could work. The only unbiased players that come to my mind though are the Moderators of this forum. And I don't really think they want to put up with clan drama ;)

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Shock
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Shock »

Cool idea ;D. I support the round table initiative. Please let me in, so that I may have excuse to wear grand helmets.

Concord
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Concord »

vov wrote:
Fippmam wrote:The organization would need neutral and unbiased players.
This is the only way this could work. The only unbiased players that come to my mind though are the Moderators of this forum. And I don't really think they want to put up with clan drama ;)
no one is unbiased

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Fippmam
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Fippmam »

Concord wrote:no one is unbiased
Probably not, no. But they'd need to be people that are essentially indifferent, and detached from inter-clan feuds.

This isn't a statistics thread - there's no need to introduce bias technicalities.

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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Flex »

vov wrote:This post is mostly directed at Flex
Your WHOLE post is completely off the subject matter. 3 & 6 are just as bad. You know very well that it warrants being deleted, but you instead post anyway.

Are you delusional that you think you ignore me on the grid?! That is where all your trolling consists of. Every time I'm on a server with you, you're there saying some half-arsed flamebait and you want to insinuate I'm the "flamer". Let me expand on the woodworks bit, because you clearly didn't get it. I don't even ****ing know you, I don't know where you've come from, I took a break from tron and when I came back, you constantly had my name in your mouth. I don't even come on these boards because of trash talkers like you. So how else do you dish out your crap towards me? Via post cards?

It's nice of you to admit you're a troll, but oh wait, you only troll people you're not friendly with, that's supposed to make it all better! So logically (your universe) I'm the flamer, but I don't visit these forums as much as you, and when I do, your first post towards me is I command and harass people, while ironically harassing me now.

How the **** you want me to stop, you stupid bellend. Should I bend over and say thank you for your verbal abuse or shall I cut your air supply and respond to your accusations. I think I'll do the latter.

I make two posts on these forums, and instantly you're here to accuse me of harassing and commanding people. How are you ignoring me exactly? How am I the flamer, in your retarded eyes?

So all these people favouring a community effort to communicate more, are not trying to command people, except me?

So hey vigilante, It's time you stop trolling me and get the **** out of this thread, you are not in anyway going to expand on the points made, you've said your biased views, ironically calling others biased. You know why I am hated by people like you? Because I address the elephant in the room and am not afraid to speak up against your bullshit.

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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Hoax »

Pythotron what do you think

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orion
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by orion »

Hoax wrote:Pythotron what do you think
Lol NO!!!!!!
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devicat
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by devicat »

Can we get things back on track?

The problem we face, right now, is that not all clan leaders necessarily possess the wisdom or trust necessary to lead a clan; at least not naturally. We are talking about human beings, here. Sometimes people need to be lead in the right direction, and clan leaders sometimes get carried away with their power and influence.

I propose that our best course of action is to write up a constitution of clan/team rules, and anyone who breaks them will be punished. These rules have to be loose enough to encompass the vagueness of future problems, but concise enough that they are easy to remember. Most of these rules should be fairly intuitive. Things like: be honest with other clan leaders, don't conspire against other clans, etc. Most of these rules base themselves in notion of being honest. But hearing honest truths only gets us so far. Just knowing about the antics of a clan does not correct the issue, it just warns us to be more careful in the future.

The average clan member cannot get away with just anything they please, for they would then have the clan leader breathing down their neck. On the contrary, when a clan leader does something wrong, who is there to make things right?

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woof
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by woof »

Fippmam wrote:(e.g clan site hacking, baylife,


Baylife should not be an issue for a committee like this. The players deceived their clans and that should be resolved internally within the clan. It's not other peoples' jobs to get involved with something that's not their issue.

Fippmam wrote:The organization would need neutral and unbiased players.
Finding players like this willing to actually be part of this would be extremely difficult. Even if clans voted on the player that wouldn't mean they picked a player fit for the job.

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delinquent
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by delinquent »

Clans put forward a handful of players, and everybody votes on whom, from each clan, forms part of the committee.

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Fippmam
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Fippmam »

woof wrote:Baylife should not be an issue for a committee like this. The players deceived their clans and that should be resolved internally within the clan. It's not other peoples' jobs to get involved with something that's not their issue.


It actually is, because as I'm sure most people would agree, there's a thin line between intra-clan related drama, and inter-clan related drama, because of the small size of the tron community. That line was crossed and there's really no way for we as a community to deal with something like that, except if we had something like this.

Anyway I didn't even play fort back then, so I'm in no position to point fingers. But it's clear that the incident involved many clans, and whether action should have been taken against it or not, (not advocating that it should have), could have been up to a collective union like this.

woot wrote:Finding players like this willing to actually be part of this would be extremely difficult.
Just because it's difficult, doesn't mean it can not be done. 3 pages on a topic that is a day old, shows that people are willing to be a part of it.
woot wrote:Even if clans voted on the player that wouldn't mean they picked a player fit for the job.
This applies to every election and that is why it is called an election. You'll just have to trust that the consensus of the majority is the most fitting one. You're basically attacking the very institution of election, which I think belongs in a political thread, somewhere on CNN forums.
devicat wrote:I propose that our best course of action is to write up a constitution of clan/team rules, and anyone who breaks them will be punished.
But punished by who? Who is going to enforce the laws of that constitution? I thought that is what we were trying to establish because quite frankly, a law without enforcement is just that - words on paper.

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Pr3
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

Post by Pr3 »

First I want to reiterate that this is purely an idea that I wanted the community to chime in on (And you have certainly done that). I believe we've steered off course a bit. The idea for forming this union was to make our gaming community the best it could possibly be. Squashing old beefs between clans certainly would be a positive side-effect, but this is currently available through community forums. If one clan or team has beef with another they could simply air it out through these forums or personal clan forums. My main purpose for forming the FSU, was to give the community muscle against inappropriate acts committed by members of our community. On a different note, keeping bad apples in our community for the sake of numbers only is counter productive towards building a great gaming environment. How could we be expected to attract new and responsible members by tolerating those who give our community a bad image? Therefore, we need the power to discipline and punish those whose actions hurt our clans and teams. Without the ability to react to these bad apples properly, we will continue to struggle with the selfish and hurtful acts of individuals. These individuals do not have the best interest of our community at heart. The idea behind FSU is that each clan and team has an equal say in the rules, regulations, and any disciplinary actions. The idea that we all agree as a community to enforce these laws is at the very core of the FSU. This way, no one individual can use this power in an abusive manner for their own gains.

But the more I read your comments and begin to flesh out the idea of the FSU, the more I realize that this would require a bold, new step towards something revolutionary with the Armagetron community. Something that has never quite been done before. I'd like to propose that we take our gaming community to the next level by forming a professional Fortress and Sumo League (FSL). This league would be regulated by the FSU committee which would enforce a set of rules and regulations agreed upon by the entire community. While that is a long term goal, the immediate impact would be a regulated gaming community. The FSL would hold a monthly professional level ladle in-which the FSU would have oversight power. The FSU would also review any applications for new clans and members. By doing this, we will be giving the FSU committee the muscle it needs to enforce it's agreed upon rules. If a team or it's members violate these rules, the FSU could ban them from the league and they could not simply re-name themselves and participate in the ladle anyway.

One last thing...What if LeBron James decided to play for the the New York Knicks one month, then the LA Lakers the next, then finally the San Antonio Spurs. It would be totally unfair. Yet, it is done in our ladles every month. Clan-hopping within this new League could also be regulated. A proper free-agency system could also be a nice addition as well. Having a league regulated by the FSU committee could be the first step in finding a solution to the imbalance of talent amongst the different teams. Just a thought. What's yours?

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þsy
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Re: Fortress & Sumo United (FSU)

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The minimum number of characters you need to enter is 21.

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