Ladle 60

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Ratchet
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Ratchet »

I actually posted that several minutes after midnight (the start of Sunday). I started typing the post on Saturday, the day before the ladle. Ironically enough, this "player-adding" was done on August 3rd. Believe it or not, it's August 5th right now. I think that qualifies as two days? Maybe I can't count.

Nope, I haven't read the rules you posted, and I don't care to. I have no intention of beating around the system just to cheat and get players to play for me or whatever hideous things people have done in the past to get people to bitch about it. (I'm quite sure that since you bothered to point it out you were one of the people crying over it). Just get over yourself. I fixed the problem that shouldn't have existed. Now, go to bed. Find a more productive way to spend your life. Have kids, pay attention to your wife. Something. People in your real life need attention, not me.

EDIT: Eh, you like searching for links to make it seem like you know what you're talking about, so here:

Ladle 59: Played July 1st.
Pure Luck team June 30th: http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php? ... ldid=39498
Pure Luck team July 1st: http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php? ... ldid=39507

Page of Ritsuka's edits: http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php/ ... ns/Ritsuka


Now, tell me why your old ass wasn't on top of that bitching your heart out? Oh, right.. He must've read the rules and should be exempt. I should've known. :roll:
Last edited by Ratchet on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by PokeMaster »

So you're mad because the system caught you and not someone else? That doesn't mean Ritsuka isn't guitly, it just means that nobody noticed, but I'd say the time to deal with that has passed.

And seriously, you're showing a lot of disrespect for a system that many people (one of them being Sine) have poured hours and hours into to try to improve as much as possible. It's not perfect. We know it. So stop complaining about how unfair it is and bring it up as an issue after the ladle (since calling for votes right before ladles causes a mess*). Either way, it's entirely possible to sign up your team without any problems if you just take the small effort to maintain organization. Start a clan forum thread asking who can make it. If you don't hear back from people, sign them up anyway. All it takes is communication and a bit of preparation, and it's something that every other team does so that they can compete. If you don't think it's worth your time, then you shouldn't be competing in the first place.
Ratchet wrote:Nope, I haven't read the rules you posted, and I don't care to.
PokeMaster wrote:If you don't think it's worth your time, then you shouldn't be competing in the first place.
Anyway, I apologize for the attitude, but please open your eyes a bit and see that you're stepping into something that's much greater than just you or your single team's participation.

*<-- guilty
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Ratchet
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Ratchet »

I understand, and really I accepted the fact that it was something people were going to complain about regardless. I don't necessarily understand and/or agree with it, and the only reason I even bothered to press it further was because [ever so coincidentally] the person who pointed it out and created the ordeal was:
Slickster wrote: Just to confirm, it's not allowed to add more than 2 people to a roster after brackets are already posted?
Wasn't he on Ritsuka's team? Shouldn't he have known the rules? (Obviously he does now?)

Just wondering.
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Word
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Word »

Fraud is fraud, even if it remains undetected. and ignorance isn't an excuse when all necessary knowledge is available and the majority of teams follows the rules. The ladle is based on the trust that everyone adheres to the rules, like everything else.

Some teams (well, this Ww team kind of is new) seem to demand special treatment because their captains don't do what a team captain is supposed to do or think the tournament works if everyone ignores the rules he personally doesn't like, regardless for what reasons they were introduced in the first place.

If you don't like to read the rules you should simply get another captain. That used to be self-explanatory and I don't understand why you have to be so furious about that. It was your mistake. Your teammates have a reason to be furious because you didn't sign them up, you don't. Team captains need to be halfway self-reliant.

I remember lots of Ww CTF tourneys where the rules weren't as clear as here and there was a constant debate over whether holing and basecamping or group suicide (which was used by Ww to win a tournament, and then forbidden) were unfair.
A win isn't worth anything if the rest of the community doesn't acknowledge it.

Note that the ladle had next to no rules when it took place for the first time, because everyone knew what good sportsmanship is and it was clear who'd play. The set of rules we have is a result of the growing carelessness and indifference towards the values the ladle was based on. Nobody here wants to add a new rule whenever someone finds a gap in the law, we all want to keep them as simple as possible. That doesn't work when people don't take the system seriously and debate every single sub-precedent.

None of this was an issue or questioned when Ww, VcL, ID, unk, R and our clan played their first ladles.*

*(citing these examples because I don't know about teams like SP and CT, except that some of their players helped setting the rules up - and I'm not even thinking of 2008 as "good old times"...)
Last edited by Word on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DaGarBBaGeMAN
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by DaGarBBaGeMAN »

Wow Ratchet, I'm kinda taken back by your attitude here. Sine has done a whole lot for this community, so either show him and this whole system some respect, or don't participate in Ladle at all. I'm surprised this should even be an issue here; these rules have applied to every other team and every other player for the 7 years that Ladle has been going on, so why should you, someone relatively new to Ladle who hasn't helped setting any of it up, get special treatment? Be thankful that sine and others have given so much thought to develop a fair Ladle system and follow it.
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Ratchet
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Ratchet »

DaGarBBaGeMAN wrote:Wow Ratchet, I'm kinda taken back by your attitude here. Sine has done a whole lot for this community, so either show him and this whole system some respect, or don't participate in Ladle at all. I'm surprised this should even be an issue here; these rules have applied to every other team and every other player for the 7 years that Ladle has been going on, so why should you, someone relatively new to Ladle who hasn't helped setting any of it up, get special treatment? Be thankful that sine and others have given so much thought to develop a fair Ladle system and follow it.
I know sine has done a lot for this community, and I made it pretty clear 10 posts ago that I've changed the players on the team out of respect for him, even though I don't agree with it. (Sure, I was pissed out when I found out that something so pitiful was being complained about, but I still respect the guy, no matter how little it is at times) It shouldn't be an issue, this is (at least) the twentieth time more than 2 people have been added to a ladle team since brackets were up, and the first time someone has chosen to complain about it. (I didn't spend 30 minutes searching threads to verify it, but the vibe seems to support it). I never asked for special treatment, never mind the fact that I'm not exactly new to the ladle. In fact, I guess I should go as far as apologizing to sine. I'm sorry sine. I'm just "new" to the new ladles, the ones that have this long list of rules because throughout the last 59 of them, something has been abused. Last ladle I played in (barring 58) I don't even think there WAS a such thing as rules. It was sign your team up, show up, and play. The strategies used were the only things people complained about, there was nothing more behind the scenes.

I'm not thankful that I have to take members off of my team just because 2 days beforehand aren't enough. I still think the time should be a little more reasonable than 3/4 days before (depending on the time the brackets get put up) to add people to your team. It's not even an issue any more, I've clearly fixed the problem. I don't need everyone who feels like their opinion is important to come complain to me because I don't like a rule. (I changed it, what more could you ask?)
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Overrated »

The only thing I'm going to say has been said before. If you don't know if they'll make it, then sign them up anyway. Better to be safe than sorry, and adding that person to your roster won't effect you in the long run.
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by sinewav »

There is a lot here I should slam you for, but I don't have time because I'm late for work. The reason why we have a cut-off and 2-3 day gap is a management problem we can't get around. Ideally, we would let everybody sign up and make changes right up until the hour before Ladle, randomzie right before it starts, and get on with it. But that leaves the community no time to fix problems, to update servers, generate authorities lists, and whatever else comes up. (I guess we'd lose prediction threads too, but that's Ok with me, haha). Look, even now we are still short an EU server!

If there were a way to guarantee he had enough server owners available on Ladle day to ensure their servers are there, functional, and up-to-date with authorities, we could eliminate half the rules. I would love that. So everyone put your heads together and figure out a way so we won't have to deal with this crap any more.

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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Word »

(I changed it, what more could you ask?)
that you don't pull the founding-fathers-card and say you're used to the good sportsmanship of the earliest ladles to justify the exact opposite behaviour. Flex for instance was one of the people who helped setting these ladles up, which is praiseworthy, but the others almost regularly had to make additions because every now and then he didn't follow the unwritten ones which everyone else took for granted.

There was a lot of "behind the scenes" (especially after Ladle 16, when Concord brought 6 more teams to the ladle) you probably didn't notice because it was done so well: notice the bracket growth from Ladle 16 onwards. And more teams naturally meant more problems.

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ElmosWorld
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by ElmosWorld »

-1 TronZero 2
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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Slickster »

+1 TronZero2

Thanks for the matches R and uNk.

uNk, that was EPIC.

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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Soul »

Nice matches unk and R.

+1 TronZero 2
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Re: Ladle 60

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Re: Ladle 60

Post by Jrotc2012 »

+1 ctusa!!!!! it was awesome :<

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