Wager Tournaments (Split)

[Flex]

That would include going through PayPal (which, of course, isn't a bank). Specifically, from PayPal's site:

PayPal prohibits the following activities, even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling, unless the transactions are associated with an approved merchant.

Games of chance and games of skill –Includes any activity with an entry fee and a prize, regardless of whether the outcome is determined by chance or skill.

Seems pretty clear to me—you wouldn't be able to use PayPal even if Federal and your particular State laws allow online cash prize tournaments.

That looks right to me.. Thanks for the information. I didn't even think to check PayPal and I never knew PayPal had such tight policies on even entry fees. Too bad.

I will contact PayPal and make sure the prize reward alone complies with the rules. If so, then I will remove the entry fee, but still keep the prize money. Adjustments in terms of the available slots can either be determined by qualifiers or some form of requirement(s) per team.

As for the the trust, that's a judgement everybody needs to make on their own. In terms of server quality, that's something hard to ensure and that's one of the reasons why there's limited spots.

[Lucifer]

Don't have time right now to read through this, but I wanted to point something out:

Gambling is generally defined as betting on games of chance. Games of skill, where you control the outcome (by being an active participant) aren't usually considered gambling. Professional car racers have to pay an entry fee for every race, and expect a purse for scoring a certain ranking. Golfers likewise have to register with an entry fee, and then expect a paycheck when it's over.

Games of chance, however, are different. Gambling on dice, or the roulette wheel, or even sporting competitions where you have no influence over the game, is generally illegal.

Paying an entry fee to an online game competition probably doesn't count as gambling in most jurisdictions. Because it's not. You win if you're good enough, it's a real competition. No random chance, you have significant influence over the outcome.

[DDMJ]

Paying an entry fee to an online game competition probably doesn't count as gambling in most jurisdictions. Because it's not. You win if you're good enough, it's a real competition. No random chance, you have significant influence over the outcome.

PayPal prohibits the following activities, even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling, unless the transactions are associated with an approved merchant.

Games of chance and games of skill –Includes any activity with an entry fee and a prize, regardless of whether the outcome is determined by chance or skill.

@Lucifer: You're right, and PayPal even acknowledges this ("even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling"), so even though, in theory, it should be OK, it's not.

However, here's a random thought. This could be a workaround for the whole "entry fee" thing.

I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) PayPal has a problem/rule against sending money from user to user. Now, all we have to do is have each team member send their "entry fee" to the team leader, and claim the money is a donation to help support the clan website/servers. Once all the team leaders have all of their team's money, they "give a donation" to Flex/the tournament organizer, to help "provide servers for the tournament."

Now, as for distributing the prize money, well, I haven't gotten that far yet .

[epsy]

@Lucifer: You're right, and PayPal even acknowledges this ("even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling"), so even though, in theory, it should be OK, it's not.

Well as far as I understand it, these "activities" are allowed on a merchant account(aka paid account).

[compguygene]

@Lucifer: You're right, and PayPal even acknowledges this ("even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling"), so even though, in theory, it should be OK, it's not.

Well as far as I understand it, these "activities" are allowed on a merchant account(aka paid account).

I recently added a PayPal merchant account for my business. I can tell you that the same terms of service apply. To make sure, I called PayPal and asked. Because of the amount of fraud that has taken place in this type of activity, PayPal has completely outlawed it. However, moneybookers http://www.moneybookers.com/app/ does not prohibit this, and may be the way to go.

Code: Select all

6.7. It is strictly forbidden to send payments in order to pay for:
tobacco products,
prescription drugs,
drugs and drug paraphernalia,
firearms and ammunition,
weapons and knives,
satellite and cable TV descramblers,
porn and hardcore content or services,
government IDs and licences,
licensed or unlicensed lotteries,
stored value cards or pre-paid debit cards, if they are not associated with a single vendor and don’t have a dedicated use,
illegal multi-level marketing and pyramid selling services or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other “get rich quick” schemes or High-Yield Investment Programs (HYIP),
illegal downloads or any other goods and services infringing intellectual property rights of a third party,
in connection with any money changing or transmitting business, including but not limited to bureaus de change or currency exchanges,
purchases of travel money, and
the sale of beverages containing alcohol.
Furthermore, it is strictly forbidden to send payments from a Moneybookers Account in connection with gambling or gambling services such as sports betting, casino games and poker games.

I did read through the whole user agreement and did not see any place else where there was a problem.

[Flex]

Yes, I emailed and I got pretty much the same response.

I did think about moneybrokers or other services, but wasn't sure whether it was as popular as paypal. Anyway, if the entry fee was a worth while amount then it would be something to resolve, at least not for now. The main objective here is to start this up and by removing the entry fee doesn't disrupt a lot, as it was never about the entry fee.

Dear x

Thank you for contacting us regarding your interest in the online game
tournament. Unfortunately PayPal would not be able to provide our
services for this venture.

Under the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or
receive payments for activities that involve gaming and/or any other
activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to
games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and
sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal
and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions
where such activities are permitted by law.

The complete Acceptable Use Policy can be found at the following URL:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... le.x=en_US

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Brand Risk
Management Department at [email protected].

Sincerely,
Becky
PayPal, Brand Risk Management
PayPal, an eBay Company

Now I'm still not sure removing the entry fee and keeping the reward money alone will comply with the policy.

I thought of Durka's concept already, but to be honest, this is all for fun and not worth jumping through loops just to deposit €1.5. The €1.5's was only there for the enticement of the tournament and just to limit the teams to only those with a little more organization and commitment. Promoting a little bit of everything, at the same time for the pay-off.

Moneybrokers or other services seems like a far better path to take, rather than loops.

If it's completely fine to do the reward money, I want to continue with that and find another means of allowing teams to invest/commit and then maybe next time the entry fee can be considered.

[oddeuro]

Paying an entry fee to an online game competition probably doesn't count as gambling in most jurisdictions. Because it's not. You win if you're good enough, it's a real competition. No random chance, you have significant influence over the outcome.

PayPal prohibits the following activities, even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling, unless the transactions are associated with an approved merchant.

Games of chance and games of skill –Includes any activity with an entry fee and a prize, regardless of whether the outcome is determined by chance or skill.

@Lucifer: You're right, and PayPal even acknowledges this ("even where the specific activity is lawful and/or is not legally defined as gambling"), so even though, in theory, it should be OK, it's not.

However, here's a random thought. This could be a workaround for the whole "entry fee" thing.

I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) PayPal has a problem/rule against sending money from user to user. Now, all we have to do is have each team member send their "entry fee" to the team leader, and claim the money is a donation to help support the clan website/servers. Once all the team leaders have all of their team's money, they "give a donation" to Flex/the tournament organizer, to help "provide servers for the tournament."

Now, as for distributing the prize money, well, I haven't gotten that far yet .

"donation to a deserving team to support their clan"

[Hoax]

Moneybookers charge too much & I doubt many will have an account already whereas a lot most likely already have paypal
Durkas suggestion is the most obvious one (& should be fine imo) but should probably have the backing of devs or be dissociated from here