Pickup: Destroying fort since 2010!

[freako]

Hi guys, been awhile since I last posted here.
I don't know if someone already made a topic about the pickup games being rubbish and honestly I also don't have to time to check if someone did.

After being very busy the last months I started to notice that pickup games are gradually *destroying* regular fort games. As I was rather busy I didn't play for atleast a month and now I have a little bit more time I came back to play a few hours in the evenings. When I get online the only fort game I see running is a pickup game with 12 players and a few specs at most, while some time ago we just had some wonderfull games running up till 9v9s or even more.

Months ago we just had games running where you could join in if you had time, didn't matter if you played 5 minutes or 5 hours, there was always a game you could join to enjoy a nice game of fortress! Pickup has made some big restrictions to this, you have to commit to a game that could atleast last 30 minutes + if you want to play several hours there's still the chance you are to late for a second game, and there's offcourse that 12 player limit...

Also if you ask people in pickup if they want to join a normal fort game the standard reply is offcourse *no* and the worst part is that most players are not even willing to tell me the reason why they don't want go to a normal server.

Just made this topic to hear everyone's opinion and share experiences about pickup games.
So here's the pickup experience for me.

For myself pickup games ruin almost every chance of playing a good game of fort, I have for example 2 hours of time to play during weektime but I can only play 30 minutes because there are only pickup games running instead of normal game.
Most of the time when I see only a pickup game running I just think its time wasted to look at the irc how long the last game is already running and sign up for a new one...
And I offcourse end up playing another game instead of arma

[þsy]

Where is my quote you said you'd include?? You would have sounded way more mysterious..

This reminds me, I plan to get working on the showcase idea soon!

[Word]

the only blogpost i'm proud to have written.

I do not like pickup matches.

For weeks, there has seemed to be the tendency that every time someone wants to start a fortress game, he uses IRC first.
In my opinion this is a fatal development. It’s ruining regular games. One could argue pickups aren’t any different from the clanwars most of us are enjoying.
There is, however, a big difference. A clanwar is scheduled by two clans and usually only their members are involved. In most cases it does not disrupt the games of others. A pickup match is a game set up in its IRC channel and requires some patience, but it’s also an organized match. On the top of it all, it is daily!
Why go IRC and make things more complicated than they really are? Whenever I do not see any players in DarkSyndicate Mega Fortress and I’m trying to start a game there, I fail: after 20 minutes some pickup fan enters and tells us in a hysterical manner that HE STILL NEEDS ONE PLAYER FOR PICKUP.
When that happens in our server and I happen to be there, I warn or silence that person to keep the game running.
A part of the problem is certainly psychological. When you see an empty server, you simply do not go there – with the exception of testing or something else. I’m not saying pickups should be forbidden, and I would be naïve to think that a kind of ‘collective boycott’ would solve the problem in the long run. It is more interesting to compare these two types of casual games.
Teams in regular fortress aren’t as stable as in pickup games, though this is not inherently negative. You should see it as a challenge refreshed whenever someone leaves or joins the team. A pickup game is characterized by the same disadvantages most clanwars are known to have. And the teams are rarely equal. From what I have seen there is always a big imbalance in skill, and it’s clear after the first five or six rounds whose team will win the next matches.

You are leaving normal games to rot. It is schizophrenic that there are now always about 20 players in pickup watching while only 10 people are playing. Does it not become boring?

wow i'm so visionary

[ElmosWorld]

In my experience there are 9v9 games going on all day and when people aren't able to play in that because it's full, people then start to add for pickup. People may also add for pickup because the 9v9 is too laggy for them. People also add pickup for a more serious match.

[Jip]

I had a lot of fun matches in regular public games since pickup exists. My problem is when teams become > 6v6 it is very hard for me to play. My computer or connection cant handle it. Thats what I like pickup for - its a max of 6 players per team.

[Titanoboa]

freako and Word, I understand your frustration and that was a pretty good prediction Word. However, I happen to know that there's been an idea about a pickup server where you /add in the server itself. When there are 12 people added, people are moved to spectator except for two randomly chosen (and automatically /op'd) captains, and from there it goes on like pickup as we know it. Until the picking starts, players are able to play casual fortress while waiting.

This removes the biggest problem caused by irc pickup. As most of you must've seen, people !add on irc and wait in G5's. When the pickup match is ready to start, up to 11 people blatantly leave the server mid-round to go play pickup. This is extremely frustrating for those left behind, and it often completely kills the game in G5's. That wouldn't happen with this new design.

It also makes it more convenient pre-match in pickup. Picking will go smoother, there's no need to wait for people to arrive at the server, etc.

It's been in the works for a while now, and I can't say whether it's really possible or not. But if there's a public request, I think we'll find out about that pretty soon. Please note though, that I myself am not even remotely capable of constructing this, and if you're one of those (like me ) who would like to see this done by tomorrow, please be patient and show respect to the ones who can make it happen.

[ElmosWorld]

Titan I don't see how your idea will help at all. You will have people in G5's and people in the pickup server but will rarely have a 6v6 game and almost no chance at a 9v9 game.

[Titanoboa]

I don't deserve credit for this idea; it's not mine to begin with. However I'm sure that once it's established, the pickup server will get a loyal crowd of players, as well as G5's (or whichever will be the popular casual fortress server in the future) will have its own. And some players will join whichever server they feel like joining. At the point we're at today, there really are enough active fortress players for two successful servers to run alongside. Maybe not all weekdays, but most certainly during the weekends.

[LucK]

I just wish people wouldn't think oh we either go to g5 or pickup to play fort. Their are other options when g5 gets too full just start a game in a diff server but don't try to take people from one server to go to another thus ruining the game thats going on.

[syllabear]

I can't say whether it's really possible or not.

Looking at some of the things possible in other servers, i'd bet it is. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if theres enough people interested in fort to do this with the knowhow to actually implement it... at least not anymore...

That or they're busy with their real lives

[wap]

However, I happen to know that there's been an idea about a pickup server where you /add in the server itself. When there are 12 people added, people are moved to spectator except for two randomly chosen (and automatically /op'd) captains, and from there it goes on like pickup as we know it. Until the picking starts, players are able to play casual fortress while waiting.

If this is going to happen, would it be nice to randomize both teams instead of only the two teamleaders? Just throwing out an idea.

[voodoo]

there was a server randomizing teams between each match a while ago, eddie's server iirc

[compguygene]

Quite frankly, since I can't play in Ladles anymore, and most of the Fortress action has moved to pickup, I just don't play much Fortress anymore. Unlike many of you that have oodles of time to wait for a pickup game to start, I don't have that luxury. I have also gotten tired of a good Fortress match just getting going, just to see players disappear to pickup. To me, its a lot more fun to play anything else, but Fortress.
Now I now most of you are saying, who cares? Compguygene is just one player, and not that important of one. I would agree with that. But, I would like to point out the lack of growth of the actual number of active players/teams in the Fortress Community since pickup has become so poplular. The players that would be converting naturally from Sumo to Fortress are not doing so nearly as much because of how exclusive the Fortress Community has become. You are all gonna call me crazy for saying this, but if these fundamental issues are not addressed, Fortress will eventually be outstripped by some other Game Mode that is more accessible to the players. All those HR and DF players are not converting to Fortress like they did in the past. Maybe you all ought to think about why, and consider ways of making the community as a whole, and the gameplay more accessible to new players.
Think about it, to play in a poplular Fortress server, you have to learn not only to play Fortress, but to authenticate, and then, just when it gets to be interesting, most of the players "disappear". If G5's is supposed to replace Fortress Cafe, in terms of culture, then I would say that we have already failed. Fortress Cafe was open and available for n00bs to learn. G5's is a "Pro" server, and not meant for n00bs at all.
Perhaps that is what you really want. Perhaps you want Fortress to just be the game for the "Elite" in Armagetron. If so, you are on the right path.

[Lacrymosa]

I think what Titan said could help, because the only thing that really concerns me about pickup is what he said - people wait in G5's, you join because you want to play some games and suddenly most of them leave to play a pickup. That's just frustrating and annoying. Other than that, I don't care about pickup since I do not play them at all (too lazy to do the irc stuff).

[Jip]

I just had a look. About the past months we had an average of 2-3 pickup matches per day. From ~17h GMT G5's is very crowded (16-23 players). So I cant see pickup destroying the regular games over all, just sometimes. I can understand that it is annoying for all other players when the pickup players leave, but same happens when a clan war starts. Also it is free for everybody to sign up for pickup. You dont even need a GID to auth. It is just fun to have a competitive match in between, why dont you just let people do it?

Edit:
Also I think, in the rush hours there are too many fort players for 1 server and too less for 2 servers. Just relax and wait, this will change.