Ladle 44

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apparition
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Re: Ladle 44

Post by apparition » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:23 pm

I think around Ladle 30/31 regular holing became trendy, and over time holing became more central to the game. Then hole size was decreased because of that and things got a bit harder, so people started coordinated holing/torping. Then the no point hole became an essential tool. The no point hole is actually easier to predict because normally the set-up time is longer, but it's really hard to defend against without good sweepers. Then fortress became a numbers game: "Once we're up by N players, we hole and gank!" Teams using VoIP thrive in that situation... I think holing has become such an easily performed maneuver that it became the default strategy of both less experienced and more experienced teams. Not that teams haven't overpowered these techniques, or won without them, but it widens the gap between the expected and the unexpected during Ladles.

In fact, I think there is more thinking involved in fortress today than there ever was before. In addition to evolving strategies, there has been an expansion of the fortress community, we've expanded the levels of play. When we play in G5 Pro Fortress holing becomes absolutely necessary because of the range of skill levels present with 9v9 on the grid. When we play in Pick-Up Fortress the skill level increases, but holes are still used only because the competition is a little more fierce with 6v6 on the grid and different score limit and whatnot.

Ladle, above all other arenas, is where teamplay and true skill really shine brightest. That's why it's so exciting!

The evolution, in my mind, of the successful fortress team (in the Ladle or not) is becoming dependent on adaptability. Quick, easy, fluid adaptation to any and all types of fortress play - holing, double-def, torping, no-point-holing, speed attack, etc. The reason uNk lost to TX is the same reason CTz lost to TX - we couldn't adapt to the attacking style because we're so used to the "default". The expected vs the unexpected... I don't know what it looks like outside of CT, but to me, TX has truly reminded us that aggressive, skillful, and very FAST attacks (along with reliable defense) still win Ladles.

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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 44

Post by sinewav » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:02 pm

I agree appa. I think this was a very significant Ladle because it demonstrated a number of key changes.

The first is growth. When Ladle jumped to a 32 team bracket a few months ago I thought it was a fluke, but the size has been sustainable. That's incredible. We may ping-pong back and forth between 16/32 in the future, but there are definitely more players.

The second key change is how much the talent has really spread out. Sure, we still have some of the same teams reaching the semis/finals - but it's a rough road for everyone from start to finish. Raise your hand if you had an easy time in the 8's ... no hands?

And with all these good players spread around, there doesn't seem to be a lot of room to pull off any "tricks." By that I mean, no team can rely on special tactics or gimmicky attacks anymore (that's sooo 2010). Everyone is just too good. Like appa said, experience and adaptability is the key - and raw power!

How can this game just keep getting better? Amazing.

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Re: Ladle 44

Post by PokeMaster » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:51 pm

Really, really nice reviews appa and sine.

I agree with all of it, and I have something to say about the adaptability you discussed. During R's earlier ladles (mid to late 30s), every time we failed, I would always look at our failure, and try to identify the key cause of it. Where were we failing to point our attention to? The first few times, it always felt like there were 1 or 2 central things that we should define our team by, things, that if abided by like law, would solve everything. Now though, further down the line, it's easy to see just how many components and styles of play factor into the the game. There is no longer (and probably never was) one key strategy or style or even ideology that will always bring a team success. A team that will be truly amazing, will be one that adapt on the fly to their enemies, and TX showed that none of us are at that level yet*.

*Man it'd be so awesome if one day we reach this!
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Magic
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Re: Ladle 44

Post by Magic » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:00 pm

Give me some of that s*** you guys are smoking

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DDMJ
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Re: Ladle 44

Post by DDMJ » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:52 pm

I think a lot of teams just underestimated us. If you look at our matches, we often jumped out to HUGE leads in the first 2 or 3 rounds, forcing our opponents to have to play from behind, which is one of the hardest things to do in my opinion.

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raph123
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Re: Ladle 44

Post by raph123 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:16 am

cool posts.

Add ladle to your sig durka?
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2020
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Re: Ladle 44

Post by 2020 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:34 pm

gz tx

excellent posts
a wide variety of strategies thus inducing adaptability
sounds about right

playing for an open team
skillful players for sure
but not knowing what your team mates do in def "automatically"
is tricky for sure...
there's a lot of learned behaviour in the top teams

gz again to tx
hold the line

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Re: Ladle 44

Post by dlh » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:31 pm

Tronners Unlimited vs. Open Team didn't have a score listed, so I put it down as 2-0.

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Re: Ladle 44

Post by syllabear » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:14 pm

yeah sorry about that, forgot to put it on. It was 2-0
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