League of Fort Clans

[syllabear]

OK, so here's my thinking. Most of what fortress is today is a mix between random players on the grid just having fun and playing fortress (sometimes getting a bit more organised in pickup games), and the rest of it is competitions that mainly involve clans. Theres clan-wars, Ladle (which is mainly made up of clans) and even randomers playing against clans for fun.

So nobody can dispute clans are an important part of fortress. I think that we could use this and make a nice system out of it.

Basically, any clan which wants can sign up to a semi-official 'league' of clans. Joining would be completely optional. Each clan is ranked inside it based on their performance against other clans, but not on a points based system (to avoid very active clans taking higher positions, and also prevent farming of clans. Generally I don't think it would foster a good spirit), rather a system similar to seeding in tennis. A lower ranked team playing against a higher ranked team and winning will earn them a bigger rise on the league table than if they beat a lower placed team (which may not even improve their standing at all).

There would also be rules, such as a limit to the number of challenge wars per week (maybe one or two, but they can accept as many challenges they want, so they do not only war against higher ranked clans. Also maybe a rule saying you have to accept a challenge from an opponent?), and a minimum number of wars per month (maybe one). Also, not all wars would count towards the standings. Only wars that are agreed to be 'official' between the two clans are counted, and both clans must post the scores (wherever we put them). There would also be rules on the format of the matches - current ladle settings, and matches are best of 3, which would influence how the clan moves on the league (for instance, winning 2-1 would get less of a gain than 3-0). At the end of each week, all scores are taken into account, and clans are sorted accordingly.

I think this would be an improvement to the fortress community, because it would be a nice way of increasing competition between clans, since to improve you have to take part in clanwars. Also it would set goals for clans, and be an interesting way to predict ladle results, and possibly, we could even trial non-random ladle allocation, either putting all the lower ranked clans on one side, or placing clans so the top seeds meet in the finals.

Other things to say: yes, teams would be allowed to join. Someone would have to come up with a way of ranking the clans, that is not point based (or not too point based), but fair. Also would need somewhere to put all the information (wiki/forums?)

Comments/ideas/criticisms welcome.

[Word]

nice idea, if you learn out of the mistakes that have been made here:
http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 60&t=19366
http://fortresspremierleague.pbworks.com/
http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 60&t=19702


btw, what happened with this idea? Maybe you, Titan and Concord could work together?

[Titanoboa]

btw, what happened with this idea?

People are afraid of being team leaders..

[syllabear]

@word My idea varies from titan's slightly, but both could easily run together.

What I am trying to do, is bring what currently is random clanwars together to a loosely organised structure, something more meaningful and more useful.

The keyword here is loosely, as there is not alot of dedication required. One clanwar a month, with both sides agreeing it is official is all that is required. I feel that is what the problem with the other projects was. This requires virtually no extra effort (taking note of the scores) on the part of the clans (obviously whoever is running this has to spend the short amount of time each week to run the numbers through a formula and post the new rankings).

[Titanoboa]

As it seems, you are looking for some sort of a ladder system.
I'm all for the idea.

Chess competitions usually use good ladder systems, maybe someone who knows more about it can link you to a good page or help you in some other way.

[LucK]

Why not do it like conferences.

Like a Euro and North America conference. Give each team a schedule playing within the conference and with teams from the other conference. At the end of the "season" take the teams from each conference with the best in conference records and have them play each other for the championships. If two teams from the same conference have the same in conference records then take the team with the best overall record and have them play in the championships.

[apparition]

I think the reason why things like this haven't worked is because the schedule that people are required to follow, ya know? It's really easy to set a schedule, but it's really hard for a big group of random people to follow it.

[sinewav]

Why don't you do this instead (it requires no effort from the teams!):

Go to every clan's website and look at their challenges from other clans. Then, record the wins and losses on a website with whatever ranking system you choose. Clans could voluntarily give you win/loss information, or you could continue to scour their forums for challenges.

Just having this data might be useful in the future - or it could just be fun to look at.

[Word]

The only thing i don't find plausibly yet is why both clans have to agree that a war is "official". some losing teams would always say it's not. I can't think of a simple rule to prevent this, maybe someone else can?

[syllabear]

@Luck, too complicated. As I said, loose. I am taking what is going on currently, adding the most minor rules, and making a league system out of it. No winners or losers, just a ranking system.

@appa: I agree, thats why there is an option to join, and the barest of requirements: 1 official match per month? you could make your laddle game that match and be done with it.

@sine: too much effort for me. And no involvement for clans. Not to mention, some wars are for fun, some for training, some for real, and some clans do alot more battles than others.

@Word: both agree before the match. So for example, Tu challenges Pru to a match because you are 1 rank higher than us. We say we want an official match. You guys think you can beat us anyway, and accept (or you have to, since highers must accept challenges from lessers, if that rule is implemented).

There we go, both sides have agreed its an 'official' match with results.

[Tank Program]

Has anyone else ever used ClanBase? They have a good ladder leauge system, as well as a way for clans (teams here) to schedule matches according to the available members of both teams. Same with then reporting the end of match score for adjusting the ladder.

[Lacrymosa]

Has anyone else ever used ClanBase? They have a good ladder leauge system, as well as a way for clans (teams here) to schedule matches according to the available members of both teams. Same with then reporting the end of match score for adjusting the ladder.

Used it once for a short league, went pretty smoothly. I think it should be considered when things get serious.

[syllabear]

Just made an account and signed up. From what I can tell, the quick cup (the only one available for me to make) has a limit of 30 matches, and might actually be in a set of small leagues followed by a cup (similar to the finals of the football world cup).

So, just trying to gauge interest here, what clans/teams would actually be interested in signing up for one of these loosely organised things, if it got off the ground?

[Word]

we and probably most other clans if this system works. but you know, many tronners are lazy people

[syllabear]

Hmm, unfortunately, looking around for similar things to the ClanBase site, and all of them are league generators, which include fixtures. Looks like someone will have to come up with a system for ranking (probably me, unless someone has any ideas), as I am not using something that requires teams/clans to play weekly, let alone on a set date system.

And then the system would probably use the wiki, and some excel program (which I can do, thanks to hundreds of useless IT lessons) to figure out where everyone goes.