LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

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gawdzilla
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by gawdzilla »

As long as Z-Man admins his own server then there won't be a problem.
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custang
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by custang »

OPEN TEAM wanna play in a US server 8)
bring back ddl!
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INW
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by INW »

custang wrote:OPEN TEAM wanna play in a US server 8)
Hell it sure would be awesome to play in the NC server since I live there but I'm not sure if TX v DBD will agree to switch servers. I haven't played in a USA server especially fortress in what seems months. Would be fun to actually play in a server where the lagometers aren't the size of the zone. :P
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custang
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by custang »

thanks for the game guys? /endsarcasm

WTF! I didn't even play a round, waste of time waking at 4am! :/
bring back ddl!
gawdzilla
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by gawdzilla »

I WAS NEVER HERE
syllabear
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by syllabear »

hey it was fun playing even if it was the middle of the morning, and i lagged like crazy.

Z-man definately should have learnt from the mistakes of the urugyan referee in the world cup, awarding that free restart to TX when we had all but won the first match.
The Halley's comet of Armagetron.
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INW
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by INW »

syllabear wrote:hey it was fun playing even if it was the middle of the morning, and i lagged like crazy.

Z-man definately should have learnt from the mistakes of the urugyan referee in the world cup, awarding that free restart to TX when we had all but won the first match.
Since he is the master of the game there isn't really much we can say except you screwed up Z-Man. Listening to TX lies wasn't a good choice. TX [Hoax Liza and maybe Nuby(wasn't aware of the situation)] all know that we won that match-off 2-0. Stalling and lying until more of their players showed up was a selfish choice. But hey, what can I do; I'm just a noob tronner who should get a life anyway.
EDIT: We all even said 'gl hf' after Hoax started a new match (the first match before the Z-Min restart).
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Z-Man
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by Z-Man »

The standard procedure for starting a match if the server owner or non-player admin is present is:
- Admin asks if teams are ready
- Teams say they are (or not, then restart at step 1)
- Admin starts the game, makes extra sure everyone notices
We had several cases already where that procedure was not followed and not everyone noticed the game was started for half a match.

In this case, Hoax started a new match without asking whether everyone was ready and without taking taking care everyone was aware of the start. Specifically, I was not aware. It was 2 vs 6 at that time. I was in the 'oh, they're just gathering up players, probably delayed from the previous game' phase of doing other stuff on other screens. I didn't have the recorder online (unimportant for the validity of the start, but to stress my unawareness). That start was irregular. Now, an irregular start can be accepted nevertheless, but when I became aware of the problems (which was in round 3 or so), there was one player on TX who didn't grind and was obviously unaware of the start. I did scroll up to see that it was Hoax who started a new match, but because of the reasons outlined above, decided I would not accept it as the real start. I wouldn't have started in that situation, not without making extra sure they really wanted to play with just two players. Obviously, scrolling and reading and getting yelled at from all sides took time.

So yeah, maybe that decision was formally wrong. But considering how different the later matches went from the first after TX got themselves adapted to the situation, I'd say it was the right decision for determining the better team. You just don't start a match with 1/3 of a team, not even if you're that team.

What I'll learn: I'll cut down admin rights of team captains on my server when I'm present myself.
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INW
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by INW »

The situation was that TX just beat dbd with 2-3 players and that was there team. Since we had to restart more players began to show up. We won 2-0 but since the first match didn't count and by the 4th match TX had 5 players- it wasn't a competition.
gawdzilla
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by gawdzilla »

I was the team leader of open team and really don't think this is a big deal. Obviously, Hoax meant to start it all and took it back for whatever reason to mess with us, I'm not gonna further elaborate on it because him and Liza both know very well what they were doing. Not gonna blame them, I probably wouldve done the same and in the end they won fair and square.

Do have to say, Z-Man, in the ladle usually a team leader of either team just starts the match.. I've hardly experienced an admin doing it.

Anyways, just let it go. It's not a big deal.
Hoax
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by Hoax »

I understand your frustration but you can't really complain when you lost a match with twice as many players.
& we had no idea if anyone else would show up
Could go on but I don't regret anything as they turned out to be really good games lol
Yeah and hopefully pr3 can make a video full of successful and failed torps and some sumo def/atk
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INW
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by INW »

Rudy and punish alrdy showed us in the WST you don't have to have a full team to win. Sometimes having very few but good players isn't a bad choice. As for the successful and failed torps/holes...hehe it would be interesting to see a unique video put together showing such events. :P
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Lord Pein
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by Lord Pein »

Z-Man wrote:You just don't start a match with 1/3 of a team, not even if you're that team.
Yes, you do. Especially when your match is (and has been for quite some time) scheduled; you don't keep the other team waiting just because your team is not organized and is not there at the scheduled time.
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Z-Man
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by Z-Man »

Maybe, but I had no information about the nature of the delays or that TX had previously played with so few players. I wasn't on the server they played on previously. That's something I usually do, check on the games of teams that may come to my server next, and I'll definitely put that on my list of things to do every time. And informed admin is a better admin.

Liz: maybe on other servers, but on mine, I do the work myself whenever I can. Helps me get the recorder in with minimal pre-match filler recorded, and I'm not busy playing, so I can spam a few CENTER_MESSAGES to make extra sure everyone notices the game started. Also, it makes me feel useful. There's not much else to do for an admin these days.

Edit: Relevant log entries. Note, I can't see team chat with most of the action from the admin client, it only appears in the log. Usually a good thing, because it makes it easier to spot chat spam.

Code: Select all

[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: is mkay coming?
[8] .×] Hoax --> Teammates: no cba
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: kk
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: lets give up this is a waste of time
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: isnt it?
[8] .×] Hoax --> Teammates: spose
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: okay
[8] .×] Hoax --> Teammates: or u just wana play
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: i dont care
[8] Remote admin command by Hoax@forums: start_new_match
[8] New Match
[8] Resetting scores and starting new match after this round.
[8] .×] Hoax: lets just plai
[1] oT|Lizmatic: ? 
[2] sine.oT: gl hf
[1] oT|Lizmatic: ok
<more glhf from oT>
So yes, they had essentially given up, but from a formal perspective, this start was still irregular, as oT was not asked whether they were ready. That they were and didn't object and that it ultimately would have been to their advantage doesn't change that.

Code: Select all

[9] Received login from 79.159.109.19:2380 via socket *.*.*.*:4536, network version: 0.2.8.3_beta2 (ID: 16).
[9] .×] nuby: hey
[7] .×] Liza: hi nuby
[0] Go (round 2 of 10)!
[8] .×] Hoax: fuyck off nbuby
[7] .×] nuby has been invited to join TX.
[9] .×] nuby: wtf?
[7] .×] Liza: LOL!
[9] .×] nuby: 3?
[6] custang.oT: yea nuby
[8] .×] Hoax: just go away
[9] .×] nuby plays for TX.
[6] custang.oT: lol
[9] .×] nuby: 3?
[9] .×] nuby: WTF?
[8] .×] Hoax: nah **** it join this could get interesting LOL
[9] .×] nuby: :(
[6] custang.oT: ol
[1] oT|Lizmatic: just play
[0] Go (round 3 of 10)!
[9] .×] nuby: is this
[9] .×] nuby: serious match?
[9] .×] nuby: or not
[2] sine.oT: serious
[9] .×] nuby: i mean
[9] .×] nuby: wow
[8] .×] Hoax --> Teammates: ok
[9] .×] nuby --> Teammates: is this all we got?
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: 1 Yes Oui Ja
[8] .×] Hoax --> Teammates: stfu nuby youre late
[9] .×] nuby --> Teammates: you won dbd'
[9] .×] nuby --> Teammates: ?
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: 1 Yes Oui Ja
[9] .×] nuby --> Teammates: LOLOLOL
[0] Go (round 4 of 10)!

[7] .×] Liza: lol if we win a round
[7] .×] Liza: aw
[7] .×] Liza: :(
[1] oT|Lizmatic: its not like were playing serious..
[1] oT|Lizmatic: :/
As you see, nuby was in the dark for quite a bit and he certainly played like it, which is of course their own fault. I picked up the last comment from Liz, reading it as 'we're not playing seriously because it hasn't started yet'.

Here's about where I wake up:

Code: Select all

[0] Go (round 5 of 10)!
[9] .×] nuby: this started?
[2] sine.oT: yes
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: YES
[1] oT|Lizmatic: LOL!
[13] Z-Min: no.
[8] .×] Hoax --> Teammates: you tool
[9] .×] nuby: no.
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: YES
[2] sine.oT: no?
[9] .×] nuby: he said no
[2] sine.oT: ...
[1] oT|Lizmatic: ..
[8] .×] Hoax: what the ****?
[1] oT|Lizmatic: we did start
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: it did start
[1] oT|Lizmatic: we started stfu
[8] .×] Hoax: this ladle is a joke
[9] .×] nuby: he said no
[1] oT|Lizmatic: were not gonna wait longer lol
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: it did start
[9] .×] nuby: ok restart
[8] .×] Hoax: ok start it zman
[9] .×] nuby: LOL!
[8] .×] Hoax: LOL!
[6] custang.oT: lol stfu it has
[7] .×] Liza --> Teammates: 1 Yes Oui Ja
[7] .×] Liza: LOL!
[8] .×] Hoax: z-man have we started?
[2] sine.oT: yes
[10] 2020.oT: yeah yeah
[6] custang.oT: hoax you sore loser :P
[13] Z-Min: I wouldn't have noticed if we did.
[1] oT|Lizmatic: yes we have
[10] 2020.oT: hehehe
[1] oT|Lizmatic: TX manually restarted the match and said just play
[8] .×] Hoax: can you start it please z-man
[7] .×] Liza: we havent
[1] oT|Lizmatic: so, we started
[0] Go (round 7 of 10)!
So yes. As can be seen from team chat vs. public chat, they definitely collectively lied, and I fell for it. What I should have done here is let it play on and declare the officialness of the first match pending while I reviewed the full logs. I would have had the duration of the next two matches to do so, plenty of time. I screwed up there, my apologies. I can't say whether the full logs would have made me decide differently (it probably would have), but my decisions were not based on all the facts I should have gathered, which definitely is a mistake I'll try not to repeat. Probably was influenced too much by that ball kicking thing where referees must rely on their eyes alone.
gawdzilla
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Re: LADLE 35 OPEN TEAM

Post by gawdzilla »

Look, I would have had NO ISSUE starting over if they wanted to wait for more members, but the open team had been waiting for over two hours.. we wanted to get it over with. I'm not sure why TX were acting like idiots this ladle, but ok. Must be something in the tea, Hoax. :D
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