Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

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Z-Man
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by Z-Man »

Lizmatic wrote:Hm, it works for a bit, I can see everyone playing but then it disconnects me. :/
Yeah, they do that sometimes. They only work mostly reliably if you use the exact same build on the exact same OS. They're not really designed for this kind of use.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by Flex »

Lizmatic wrote:However, I do agree with you that one admin, the one who organized this.. is very unprofessional. Flex. I wouldn't get into a personal thing with him because he'll disallow you to play in "his" tourneys over personal reasons, noobsaibot knows all about this too. Please, let someone else do it from now on.
You removed TaZ from your team and I was blamed, DIRECTLY. He came to me and said that you removed him because of me. So next time before making things personal don't blame me for your actions. Whatever personal issues you had with TaZ, it had nothing to do with me, until you mentioned my name. The wiki was locked and you were not allowed to make team adjustments after the brackets were up, either. If it was personal, I would have disqualified you and made TaZ the team leader for even getting me into that mess. You were also on your last warning for previous SKT admin abuse.

We actually agreed that you don't take part in anything I organize in the future, but you want to take this further and make a public statement about me? You're the one who made that decision and not me. I actually didn't care if you did or didn't, but this is the second time there's an issue with you.

You take part in something I spend a lot of time and effort to organize and then you create all this mess. I can take criticism and specially constructive criticism, but all this bullshit, I've simply had enough. Now there's no chance of you playing in anything I organize. Personally I would prefer it that way. Then I don't have to worry about bullshit that you bring along. You're banned from almost everywhere, yet you believe the problem's with me?

noobsaibot and I resolved the issue and he also took part. I explained clearly why I gave him the ban and he understood and we agreed it won't happen again. If it was personal I think I would have gained something personal from all that.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by freako »

Let's start with this one...

*Newbie: I'm ready to take on any european player that's scared of an USA server*
Do NOT abuse admin privileges! Anyone reported to be doing so, will be banned from all future KotG events
I would like to report epsy for this one.... silencing people, just because he has a personal grudge against a few of our players... (the foul langauge is enough proof for that)
+
I would like to add *epsy* was clearly taking side against us, and another admin even tried to make it clear to him...
akira wrote:@ olive
1) The first server was being used. What good is a backup server then?
2) Lizmatic and me were waiting in empty ServerPharm 4 for several minutes. You never showed up. No, you preferred lurking around in Server Pharm 3 where a match was still going on. I call that stalling and it was already late.
3) You say you had the right to make a decision. Indeed. We had the same right, though. And we clearly preferred the imho not bad PRU secondary server. (BTW: I had zero slides the whole game. I really doubt that an american server would have been better.)
4) Might be an oversight (*wink*) but someone put the result as 2:0 vs LC in the bracket. I corrected it as it was 2:1.
5) You speak of objective admins yet you clearly state that your aim was to gain a one-sided advantage over another team. Though look 2).
6) It was I who said that this was the biggest crap, not epsy. I really don't see any point in playing a high-ping match when I have a valid alternative.
7) The PRU server was one of the best sumo servers I played on.
1. As far as I'm aware, the second server is being used if both team-s agree on it
2. I had been in serverpharm-4 for 5 minutes together with more people
3. We both had the right to choose, but if someone chooses the main server it's binding ,,,, that's why it's called the *MAIN*
4. Sorry, my mistake
5. We don't want to get an one-sided advantage... we just prefer rubber advantage of high ping over accuracy
(and yes we lag just as hard as the most of the europeans)
6. Well some people prefer a high ping match (again, we prefer rubber advantage over accuracy, for massive mazes)
7. This depends on your own opinion, for me it was a rather bad server

If the first server was busy or down, the only option would have been the backup server, BUT I even took the respect of that tactic and gave the option to move to another TheServerPharm server. I don't know what exactly happened, but one thing for sure was I gave you guys two options. Either move to ANOTHER TheServerPharm server which was empty, (would have been the same exact machine.) Or use the backup server which was PRU. During that time, I'm trying to focus to play a match and not hold up my own game.
We didn't get the choice to go to another server pharm server (on the same machine) We had to offer it ourselves.. then the LOLcats agreed on it...
But then *epsy* the badmin came in screaming

ALL GO TO PRU SERVER, IF THE POTHEADS DONT COME THEY WILL BE DISQUALIFIED, BY ORDERS OF FLEX!!!!!!!!!!!
(while we were at the right Pharm 3/4 servers already)
talk about picking sides...
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by gawdzilla »

You removed TaZ from your team and I was blamed, DIRECTLY.
By TaZ, not me.
He came to me and said that you removed him because of me.
His choice, not mine.
So next time before making things personal don't blame me for your actions. Whatever personal issues you had with TaZ, it had nothing to do with me, until you mentioned my name.
Next time you stalk me and try to get info about me from someone, like TaZ, face the consequences when it becomes public, ya jackass.
The wiki was locked and you were not allowed to make team adjustments after the brackets were up, either.
ID replaced some players with others, Orion included because he was declined from ID. Did you warn them too FLEXY?
If it was personal, I would have disqualified you and made TaZ the team leader for even getting me into that mess. You were also on your last warning for previous SKT admin abuse.
You admitted that last time it wasn't admin abuse and you simply behaved rash, the person who I ""abused"", Desolate, can tell you it was all joking around.
We actually agreed that you don't take part in anything I organize in the future, but you want to take this further and make a public statement about me? You're the one who made that decision and not me. I actually didn't care if you did or didn't, but this is the second time there's an issue with you.
You force me to stay out of your tourneys because you once had an internet-crush on me and I didn't answer it, this is why you hold a grudge and feel the need to start arguments with me, I decide to take it public because this IS about the tourney.
You take part in something I spend a lot of time and effort to organize and then you create all this mess. I can take criticism and specially constructive criticism, but all this bullshit, I've simply had enough. Now there's no chance of you playing in anything I organize. Personally I would prefer it that way. Then I don't have to worry about bullshit that you bring along. You're banned from almost everywhere, yet you believe the problem's with me?
Ive known you upclose and you can't take critisism at all, sorry. I'm banned from CT OS, boohoo....
noobsaibot and I resolved the issue and he also took part. I explained clearly why I gave him the ban and he understood and we agreed it won't happen again. If it was personal I think I would have gained something personal from all that.
Resolved, but you still removed him over a personal issue.

I rest my case.

PS: Stop bothering other tron players about me Flex, if you feel the need to ask everyone about my personal life and be intrusive then ask me. The least I can do is spare those people from your obsessive behaviour, I thought you were over that by now.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by akira »

Greater distance to the server makes the game more prone to hiccups and misevaluation of the lag.
For me it is pretty clear that you were bound to win and doubted you ability to beat us.

Sorry for 2). It was kind of a mess and when I went to Pharm-4 there was only Lizmatic there.

To 5): I was referring to olive. Quote: "We were all euro though, but the potheads are much better on us servers compared to other teams."
Seems to me like one-sided.

And the whole point was that we had a free secondary server, both teams showed up but the match can't start because of....
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by MrsKsr »

Ok, first of all. I'm not sure on how you, Flex, want your tournaments to run, regarding server use, but the way in which you created the brackets, (making one server bold and the other not) makes it pretty clear that you're using the same rules as ladle. If this is not the case, you would do well to actually identify this amongst the other rules, otherwise you and others have no right to persecute tph over their choice.

I know, having seen it on IRC, that all people previously mentioned were acting brash while deciding what to do about the situation. Correct me if I am wrong, but according to ladle rules, the primary server is the one in bold. If both teams do not agree to switch to the secondary server, then the primary one is used. Period.

Do NOT go changing rules to suit your personal preference, or because of your personal view on the situation. Maybe you cannot understand why people would like to play with a higher ping, but that only speaks about your small mindedness... Newbie said, "I'm ready to take on any european player that's scared of an USA server." Perhaps they see it as more of a challenge. It doesn't mean theyre deliberately trying to stall the tournament, or create issues between themselves and admins/other players - which is how they were treated... Regardless of whether or not both teams were EU it doesn't say anywhere in the rules that EU teams must play in an EU server. If you want it to work that way, then implement it into the rules. Start a poll and see where it ends up...

I came to the tournament not wanting to fight, but just enjoy it, yet here I see drama... Drama which admins, the ones who are supposed to be responsible for running these things smoothy, are involved in... You can't shout your mouths off at any of tph for YOUR mistakes when creating rules, or for your bullshit decisions last minute.

If the other server was being used at the time, it's not their fault is it? Seems like everyone was blaming them for every little bit of crap that happened at that time. As much as you say you told them, Flex, to go to any other server pharm server (being that it's on the same machine), nobody and I mean NOBODY told them this untill I did. Messing around waiting was not their fault, it was more of a failure of communication between admins and players. I'm not going to say who, but I'm pretty sure some people deliberately didn't tell them they could choose another TSP server, because they couldn't see the use in playing in an american server...

P.S.

Even though I knew who they were, before epsy told everyone, just because you don't know the identities of people, doesn't mean you should treat them any differently...

Ive said this before and I'm going to keep saying it;

Flex: If you want people to take your tournaments more seriously and if you expect to keep doing this. You and your admins are going to have to shape up. The past two have involved some kind of bullshit drama and it's getting really stupid.
Last edited by MrsKsr on Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by gawdzilla »

The bold server was full though, LOLcats agreed to playing in a US server because we were sick of stalling, we went to 3 and saw that it was full. What do you do then? You go to the other server listed, which was PRU.

If you want to make it personal mya, the only reason they wanted to play in the US server was because of rubber advantage, not because it was in the rules to play in the bold server. Its just silly, we are all euro's, the euro server was free; why stall? Just play. But you're right, it should be made clear what to do with the bold server, as it wasn't entirely clear to me, I didn't see it in the rules but maybe I've read it wrong.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by pike »

It was fun tournament, although I only played ~10 minutes (illegally :P).
Looking forward to next ones (well, a bit more to 1v1 tourney).

btw
who won?
:D


gz durkas (:
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by dreadlord »

yea, thats what I am either wondering ^^ you can't read the score on the TST page :o
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by akira »

@dubstep First: Who asked you to defend anyone? You aren't involved.
dubStep wrote: Do NOT go changing rules to suit your personal preference, or because of your personal view on the situation. Maybe you cannot understand why people would like to play with a higher ping, but that only speaks about your small mindedness... Newbie said, "I'm ready to take on any european player that's scared of an USA server." Perhaps they see it as more of a challenge. It doesn't mean theyre deliberately trying to stall the tournament, or create issues between themselves and admins/other players - which is how they were treated... Regardless of whether or not both teams were EU it doesn't say anywhere in the rules that EU teams must play in an EU server. If you want it to work that way, then implement it into the rules. Start a poll and see where it ends up...
The rules didn't clarify anything in this case. Read up Ladle page or TST. Team Captains had to settle this. They were unable to, so an admin took initiative. Z-man sums it up:
Z-Man wrote:Umm, if you read the rules, you'd find there's nothing there about how primary/secondary servers are chosen. Pretty much everyone except you interpreted that as "same as ladle, secondary server gets chosen if both teams are from its continent".
Creating issues was never the reason, only the result. Reason was clearly that they perceived an advantage over us on the US-server. See the following quote:
olive wrote:We were all euro though, but the potheads are much better on us servers compared to other teams.

It is common internet-gaming courtesy prefering low ping servers.
dubStep wrote:I came to the tournament not wanting to fight, but just enjoy it, yet here I see drama... Drama which admins, the ones who are supposed to be responsible for running these things smoothy, are involved in... You can't shout your mouths off at any of tph for YOUR mistakes when creating rules, or for your bullshit decisions last minute.
Again, this has nothing to do with you at all. In a heated competetive atmosphere strong words are more likely to be flung about.
dubStep wrote:If the other server was being used at the time, it's not their fault is it? Seems like everyone was blaming them for every little bit of crap that happened at that time. As much as you say you told them, Flex, to go to any other server pharm server (being that it's on the same machine), nobody and I mean NOBODY told them this untill I did. Messing around waiting was not their fault, it was more of a failure of communication between admins and players. I'm not going to say who, but I'm pretty sure some people deliberately didn't tell them they could choose another TSP server, because they couldn't see the use in playing in an american server...
Now that is just ridiculous. No on blames Potheads for anything related to the servers. I am only blaming them for a dubious decision out of ambition and I would like to hear them admitting it. Though olive already did (see quote).
dubStep wrote: Even though I knew who they were, before epsy told everyone, just because you don't know the identities of people, doesn't mean you should treat them any differently...
I actually never cared "who" they were. I would have acted all the same if they would have been CT or whomever. Though it was pretty obvious that they had to be the leftover arrows. (Ok partly wrong.. I was curious of course.)

Maybe there should be a binding rule to avoid such situations in the future. I would prefer to use the closer server if both teams are from the same region.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by DDMJ »

Stop complaining about servers, it's getting ridiculous. My team was me (DDMJ), Goodygumdrops (Akrud), and Hoax (Dorka). Goody has been visiting California so we both had about 200 ping for the last 3 rounds of this tournament (Quarters, Semis, & Finals were all in Euro servers for us). The fact of the matter is that if you can't win with high ping, don't enter the tournament since you will have to play in a server with high ping. No one updated the bracket on the wiki so I just did.

Good matches in the finals Potheads. I couldn't believe we blew that first match. We were up like 1230 to 1000 or something crazy like that.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by MrsKsr »

akira wrote:@dubstep First: Who asked you to defend anyone? You aren't involved.
Wrong. First of all, none of TPH were on IRC. ZeMu/olive had been asking me things throughout the whole tourney, making me a sort of go-between regarding IRC. So yes it does involve me. Also, before I go any further, I didn't mention your name in any of this, so if you're trying to make this a personal argument, yet again, between you and I, save it please. This isn't a conversation about who was wrong or right, but rather the way in which people were treated.

Quoting me and repeating that which has been said by other people is not doing anything but building your post count and making you seem like an idiot...

My post was made not out of anger, but of frustration. Tournaments should not be run this way, point blank. Hence my speaking of rules concerning servers and what should be done if this were to occur again in the future. I see no slander or finger pointing, so please akira tell me why your post is so defensive, since I not once mentioned your name or even your team once in my entire post?
akira wrote:The rules didn't clarify anything in this case. Read up Ladle page or TST. Team Captains had to settle this. They were unable to, so an admin took initiative.
Wrong. At the time there were no admins in the server but me. Not untill Lisa took the matter to IRC, not that it was a bad thing to do so, did another admin (epsy) come. So if you are looking for an admin to have taken the first step to figure the problem out, it was me. I even remember telling Lisa that both teams had to agree on the server choice to play in pru server, which she had acknowleged.

At that time there was a coversation happening on IRC about this; the conversation which lead to, frankly, shitty ideas about what would happen should TPH not play in pru server, disqualification even, which is not acceptable. You, akira, were on IRC on that day; if you had left by this time then you like TPH wouldn't have known what was happening. If you were present, then like any other person, you should see that such actions would have been, I believe the word I used was brash.
akira wrote:Now that is just ridiculous. No on blames Potheads for anything related to the servers. I am only blaming them for a dubious decision out of ambition and I would like to hear them admitting it. Though olive already did (see quote).
Ok, since when has ambition been a crime? You need to understand that they chose the default server. Untill someone can clear it up that it wasnt the default server, or that if it's in use you were to use pru, then you have to accept it. They didn't create the brackets... It happens that TSP 3 was the server you were supposed to end up in. They had nothing to do with it, the choice however, looks like it's entirely favouring them because their choice was the default server AND the server of choice should both teams not agree.

Blame was indeed thrown around regarding servers. So I have no idea what your reference to no blame is about... The whole discussion is in fact about servers, is it not? They were blamed for going to TSP 3 and waiting, blamed for going to TSP 4 and waiting - which Flex said they could do (see my 1st post and/or logs of #armagetron.tourneys - if they're around, not that such a futile argument need go as far as to check logs).

In fact after all of these arguments, they still played in pru server, so what exactly is it that you're complaining about akira? Didn't you get what you wanted? Or is it that you made such a fuss about everyone being EU and still lost? - Rhetorical incase you feel the need to answer...

We can all point fingers at one another, as I have just shown I can with you. But that is not going to get anything done, so please I am asking that unless you have something to contribute which is going to further help us to figure out a solution should it happen again. Don't post.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by Olive »

akira wrote:Creating issues was never the reason, only the result. Reason was clearly that they perceived an advantage over us on the US-server. See the following quote:
olive wrote:
We were all euro though, but the potheads are much better on us servers compared to other teams.
We were granted to choice to choose. We choose and it's a "plain gay", "crap", "immature" decision. If we are having the RIGHT to choose, why go bullshitting about it. My team only heared about serverpharm4 after dubstep told us, and as we entered epsy wrote in caps that we should go pru or get disqualified. Im having no personal problems with any of you, but rules are rules, and you got to obey them.

If u have EU vs US in a final, and the EU chooses to remain in the primary european server because they prefer accuracy above rubber advantage, its out of ambition too right?

Dubstep was pretty much involved as the only admin around was choosing sides. Dubstep was the only one looking at the rules and applying them.

The aliases we used was to give us the element of suprise. I just think it's weak epsy tracked our IP's and started shouting to anyone who we were. But as everyone seems that interested: ZeMu - olive, Zume - hamar/sixzero, uMeZ - newbie, eZuM - freako.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by akira »

I never stated that I - we can't play in high ping servers. I only prefer low ping IF I have the choice.
And 2 euro teams seems like a good reason to do so. So please Durka , stop the crap.
Same goes for Dubstep regardign the postcount matter. I am surely upping my postcount from 45 to 46 or whatever in 5 years while you have 187 in a few months. No comment.

And you guys seriously miss the whole point: We were ready to play at the secondary server. We prefered that one and you obviously the primary. The other was used so it is either secondary or waiting. Moving to ANOTHER 3rd server would be totally out of your so called rules because we had a working secondary, moreso it would imply that there were another reasons for choosing an US-server.

I am only writing this because the underlying matter is simple ambition, probably of us all.
You wanted high-ping because you thought we would suck there compared to you. I wanted low-ping because I hate misevaluating the lag or getting abrupt spikes. That doesn't mean I a can't play at high pings. I am a pretty good player at swampland for example. Please stop hiding behind the "rules".

In fact, even if I often talk grumpy and whatever, my main interest is a fair and enjoyable tournament. That is the reason I dislike such overblown situations.

PS: What the tourney scene in tron needs is either a general fair attitude or strict rules. But you are right ... I am argumenting for arguments sake.
Last edited by akira on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Team Sumo Knockout Tournament - Sunday, 13th September 2009

Post by freako »

akira wrote:I never stated that I - we can't play in high ping servers. I only prefer low ping IF I have the choice.
And 2 euro teams seems like a good reason to do so. So please Durka , stop the crap.
Same goes for Dubstep regardign the postcount matter. I am surely upping my postcount from 45 to 46 or whatever in 5 years while you have 187 in a few months. No comment.

And you guys seriously miss the whole point: We were ready to play at the secondary server. We prefered that one and you obviously the primary. The other was used so it is either secondary or waiting. Moving to ANOTHER 3rd server would be totally out of your so called rules because we had a working secondary, moreso it would imply that there were another reasons for choosing an US-server.

I am only writing this because the underlying matter is simple ambition, probably of us all.
You wanted high-ping because you thought we would suck there compared to you. I wanted low-ping because I hate misevaluating the lag or getting abrupt spikes. That doesn't mean I a can't play at high pings. I am a pretty good player at swampland for example. Please stop hiding behind the "rules".

In fact, even if I often talk grumpy and whatever, my main interest is a fair and enjoyable tournament. That is the reason I dislike such overblown situations.
The 1 and only reason is that we choose to play on an US server is, we prefer rubber advantage over accuracy. The rubber advantage suits our mazing sumo style.....
so we *LIKE* to play there. .. that most EU players suck at US servers isn't our problem ( + if other people suck there, it's just an extra advantage /<--- not the main reason)
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