Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

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sinewav
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Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by sinewav »

It's now time for the quarterly review of Ladle rules. Let's use this thread to bring up issues to vote on and maybe put some others to rest. We've had good success with this method so far, and the last few Ladles have run rather smoothly. All the issues voted on last quarter were nearly unanimous. Some of them probably don't need another vote, like "coordinated server names" - but others are still open for discussion (and probably will be forever).

Let's quickly review the results of the last vote:
  • team_max_players - 6v6
  • score_hole - no (0 points)
  • 2v2 - unconquerable
  • scoring distribution - score_win 6, fortress_conquered_score 4
  • brackets - random seeds
  • servers - balance of Euro/American? (like Ladle 20)
  • finals - rotate between Z-Man's and American Server (TR Fort for Ladle 21)
  • server names - coordinated (like Ladle 20)
  • team signups - play with the names listed on the Challenge Board
* I'd like to remove "server names", "finals", and "team signups" from the vote, so please back me up if you feel the same.

In the past few months, the most pressing matter has to be the time it takes to complete a Ladle. We've had a lot of good talks about it, but it's time to formulate this discussion into a vote. To shorten the playing times, here are some things we should make voting points:
  • Ladle should be one or two day event? (which days?)
  • If the Ladle is one day only, should the times be pushed back earlier? (one hour? 45 minutes?)
  • Use LIMIT_TIME to stop matches from going too long?
  • If LIMIT_TIME is used, how long? (12 minutes? 15 minutes?)
  • Ladle finals should be best of 3 or best of 5?
Remember, in this thread we are discussing what to vote on, not necessarily the merits of individual points.
Last edited by sinewav on Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hoax
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by Hoax »

sinewav wrote:* I'd like to remove "server names", "finals", and "team signups" from the vote, so please back me up if you feel the same.
+1 (hm except maybe finals :/)

How are we voting? I'm thinking if teams got together and voted collectively it would save alot of posting & would look tidier; except you would have to take into account these votes would be from 6+ people. Only the regular teams/clans would be able to do this, as some 'teams' effectively might get more than one 'vote' if you get what I mean..with individuals each voting & then forming teams closer to the ladle.

Personally the only things I would want to put up for vote now are brackets, servers & timings. But it might aswell all get voted on to get the maximum mandate now more teams are participating, if the rules are going to stay for a while..

I think stuff like score hole & 2v2 etc can be a vote
Stuff like the timing & servers may need a discussion first so we've thought of all the possible options

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sinewav
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by sinewav »

Hoax wrote:How are we voting?
Just like last time: http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 47&start=0

A voting thread will be posted before Ladle 24. Only team captains signed up for the Ladle can vote, representing their team. Of course it makes sense if a clan has two teams registered, they get two votes. And you're right Hoax, it will put less strain on this forum and leave it up to the teams to organize their thoughts, thus keeping individuals with loud voices at bay. Rules decided this Ladle will last for the following two until we vote again.

owned
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by owned »

I think the best way to vote would be as last time-Each team gets one vote. If a team hasn't signed up on time to make a vote, then it's their problem.

As to what is voted on, I think it should be like this:

High Priority:
-Seedings or not (if we vote on seedings, there should be none next ladle, just a 3rd place match to set it up)
-3rd place match or not
-How will the games be arranged (all 5 rounds on one day, 3 on one 2 on the other, 4 on one, 1 on the other.)
-Should you be allowed to add a person to your team if they are not on another team nor on your challenge board?

Low Priority:
-team_max_players
-2v2 conq./unconq.
-Limit time (I don't really think many people want to change this. If we move it over two days, this problem would be solved anyways.)
-Ladle finals best of 3 or 5 (This problem would also be solved by making it over two days.)

Should not be in the vote:
-server names (I think that everyone agrees with this)
-score hole (there are very few people for it)
-scoring distribution (I don't really think anyone is arguing to change this)
-finals (not many people are arguing, I guess hoax is...)
- team signups (not many people are arguing about this)
Last edited by owned on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Van-hayes
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by Van-hayes »

Here are some points I'd like to see voted on:

-Ladle Finals best of 3 or 5
-Time limit for a match
-Seeding
-Player pick ups(adding players to your team the day of ladle)
-3rd place match
You've gone too far, turn back!

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Mkay1
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by Mkay1 »

hmmm... is there a site for the next ladle? because i found out about ladle 23 to late, so i want to be sure I'm on a team

owned
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by owned »

It's not really a site, but there's a spot on the wiki: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php? ... enge_Board (It will soon be updated for Ladle 24.)

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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by Flex »

I believe Durka has http://ladle.ath.cx It redirects to the wiki at the moment, but maybe we should start a joint effort creating this Tronic system and have Ladle more automatic.

server names - coordinated (like Ladle 21+)
Just remove it completely. It was only included in the vote to push it faster. It's something that benefits us all now, so nobody should or will be objecting to change this. Unless it is a format change, in which they should make it a separate issue.

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DDMJ
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by DDMJ »

LIMIT_TIME ... no!

The Ladle is about patience and knowing when to take risks or not. Make the tournament start an hour earlier, or more! The amount of people it affects by making it earlier is far less than the amount it affects by running late.

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ed
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by ed »

LIMIT_TIME ... yes!

The Ladle is about patience and knowing when to take risks or not. Make the tournament start an hour earlier, or more! The amount of people it affects by making it earlier is far more than the amount it affects by running late.

Isn't this the reason for voting :)

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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by 1200 »

ddmj wrote:LIMIT_TIME ... no!

The Ladle is about patience and knowing when to take risks or not.
Yea i agree. To stop 2 players from sumo'ing it out due to time limit is like stopping a heated tennis rally.

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DDMJ
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by DDMJ »

ed wrote:LIMIT_TIME ... yes!

The Ladle is about patience and knowing when to take risks or not. Make the tournament start an hour earlier, or more! The amount of people it affects by making it earlier is far more than the amount it affects by running late.

Isn't this the reason for voting :)
Yea is it the reason, but what you said isn't true ;).

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2020
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by 2020 »

the objective of the thread
as far as i can tell from sine's super-clear definition
is to determine the items we shall eventually vote on in our teams and represented by the captains
so...
let's not get stuck in with actually arguing about pros and cons of any individual item...

then again
prioritising such a list and determining the cut-off necessarily involves evaluation of the items...

tricky indeed...

imho
a trial about the timing of a match should be included in the vote :)
hold the line

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ed
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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by ed »

DDMJ wrote:what you said isn't true ;).
What I said was nonsense, what you said was pure speculation.
From what I can gather a lot of people are unhappy about the length of time the ladle takes each month.
This only really effects those players who make the finals as they can sometimes be expected to play for up to 5 hours with little break.
It can be as much a battle of stamina and available time as it is skill (how many finals have had less than full teams?). I need to get up at around 6am on Monday morning, I really don't want to be playing the ladle till 1 am, I know I am not alone in this respect.

It seems clear something ought to be done about this. Possibly one or a combination of:

:cat: LIMIT_TIME n, so matches do not exceed their allotted timeframe.
:pdog: Ladle spread over more than one day
:skull: Finals best of 3 (not 5)
:star: Bouts are best of 1 match with limit_score n (200 perhaps)

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Re: Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

Post by custang »

I don't like the idea of spearding the ladle over two days, for a matter of fact i dont really like the date of the ladle now since it's a monday morning for me (4am), I don't think i'll even be able to play them anymore since school will be starting up again.

Why don't we move the ladle a day back? :roll:
bring back ddl!

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